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just to let people know there is a real nice version of Carcassonne over at Gamersgate for $10 Looks like it was made about 5-7 years ago but the Ai is brutal and it comes with the river tiles and first 3 expansions.

One other thing if you buy it don't let install in the Program Files Directory likes it wants too or you won't be able to save your Games or Profiles etc.... Works great on my Windows 7 64 bit system too....

Beakie
Post edited October 20, 2011 by Beakie
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carnival73: You have to admit though when it comes to the US and Western-influenced countries like NZ - the only well known board games over here are all the Hasro and Parker Bros games and the only table tops that actually get played are Yu Gi Oh and Magic the Gathering - I haven't even seen people playing table top D&D any more.
In the US "real" board games are readily and openly available at most any hobby store. Even Toys r Us carries Catan.
I love Catan. I still own and play from time to time Catan: The First Island. I have also a mobile version of that game which is even better because it includes an expansion.
Hell, I used to play that game like once a week, and I was definitely in the PAX tournament, although that didn't go too well. Fun though! This topic is making me want to play it again.

Here in the US at least, it seems like all the... well... "hip" tabletoppers at least know of Catan.

EDIT: And as muttly mentioned it's in Toys"R"Us, which pretty much seals the deal for me. The game is super popular.
Post edited October 20, 2011 by PhoenixWright
Ah, those crazy underground games. Catan is about as underground as Half Life, for chrissakes.
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bazilisek: Actually, I feel the worst position is the one before the last. The really good hexes are already taken and unlike the last player, you do not have the chance to at least grab two of the remaining that make good sense together. The third one is picking up scraps in both of his turns.
Come to think of it, you've a good point there.

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bazilisek: From my observations (and I've played this game a lot), if you don't get any or just very few cards in the first two rounds of dice rolls (something you can't influence in any way), you might as well give up, as you're never ever going to catch up to the other players. Most games I've seen have one or two players who lose the chance to win relatively early in the game, and for the rest of it are just sitting there, rolling the dice and praying it would already end. That's not good design.
That's exactly it. Even if you're not in a place to have any shot at winning, you should at least have the chance to do something that has a meaningful impact on the endgame. As it happens, you're just left there, feeling bored and unengaged.

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bazilisek: I've also witnessed a game where a 2 was rolled considerably more times than a 5, which effectively determined the winner -- sitting on what theoretically is the most worthless position in the game. The element of randomness really hurts Settlers of Catan, in my opinion.
Yeah, I remember once getting soundly humiliated when I put myself at junctions where I was guaranteed a good intake of at least one of every resource, only to have the dice completely favour the other tiles. It felt almost like I was being punished for good planning, or that it didn't matter at all.

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bazilisek: Do check out Puerto Rico; there is almost no randomness in that game, which is one of the reasons I like it.
I've heard a lot about it at my board games group, and hopefully I'll get a chance to play it, if we can tear ourselves away from Ticket to Ride.
aah the settlers of catan..

brings back good old memories
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carnival73: I think it's just gained recent popularity with releases to the consoles and handhelds. It's been around for ever but I just started hearing about it more and more recently.
I can't speak for all platforms but it's been out on XBox Live for years now. It's the Risk of this generation, okay game, but vastly inferior to some of the other stuff out there, but since everyone's played it's all they want to play.

Just my perception and experience, of course. I can't speak for everywhere, but people used to cart that damned game into my house to play weekly. The rate they crap out expansions for it kind of screams "cash in!" to me, as well, but that's another thing.

With all that, it's not a bad game, I just like a lot of other ones better.
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Crassmaster: Ah, those crazy underground games. Catan is about as underground as Half Life, for chrissakes.
aye , hidden in the dark lost in oblivion

altough remembered and played by all :)
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bazilisek: This is definitely true, and the reason I don't play SoC anymore. In the end, it's the dice that is the problem. From my observations (and I've played this game a lot), if you don't get any or just very few cards in the first two rounds of dice rolls (something you can't influence in any way), you might as well give up, as you're never ever going to catch up to the other players. Most games I've seen have one or two players who lose the chance to win relatively early in the game, and for the rest of it are just sitting there, rolling the dice and praying it would already end. That's not good design.

I've also witnessed a game where a 2 was rolled considerably more times than a 5, which effectively determined the winner -- sitting on what theoretically is the most worthless position in the game. The element of randomness really hurts Settlers of Catan, in my opinion.

Do check out Puerto Rico; there is almost no randomness in that game, which is one of the reasons I like it.
I would say those folks need to buckle down a bit more. I have never played a game where its more likely that a "down and out" player has a better chance of getting out of a hole. A few decent roles and some shrewd play get you right back in. Is there luck involved, sure, but its minimal and built on odds.

That can happen. But kind of like saying Blackjack favors the player when they go on a hot streak. I totally understand not liking the randomness (although I do in that game, its what makes the original tile selection you dont like interesting) and for you they have the "die roll deck". Just cards with the exact probabilities built in, so you will always have more 7's than anything else, etc.

Puerto Rico is a great game. But playing on your randomness complaint, without some degree of random every game would be decided within the first few moves. If you do something slightly incorrect or not utterly efficient, you lose as they is no way inherently to catch up. And even in your perfect world were the best player always wins, the best payer always wins! Where is the fun in that? Even people close in skill will have to fall to the pecking order over time since there is no random chance for a bit of luck.