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koima57: ALL HAIL, THE DLC DUKE!!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/
There are a lot of things to fault Train Simulator for (annoying upgrade policy, slow patching, bugs, and so on) but their model regarding DLC is not one of them.

DLCs/Addons for a lot of train sims and flight sims are not the same as DLCs for conventional games. A lot of them come from 3rd party developers and are made for a very narrow subset of the game's players. Nobody is ever intended to buy all of them, and nobody (except some very specific fanatics) really does.

If you think Train Simulator has a too much DLC, then you should see what some flight simulators have. If Flight Simulator X or X-Plane were to get on Steam with all their DLCs and Addons then Train Simulators DLC pile would seem small by comparison.

It can be like that partly because the alternative in this case ends up being bad in a different way. Because of the niche appeal of the game and the limited number of potential buyers, in order to turn out an equivalent amount of content that satisfies as much of the customers in the same way without DLC/Addons you'd raise the price of the game for everyone.
Your $40 game might become an $80 game to pay for large portions of content intended for other players that you personally will never use. Everyone else wants that specific train they used to ride back in the day or that plane that their dad owns in real life and if it wasn't DLC you'd have to help pay for it.

Some similar sims work differently. Steel Beasts Pro from eSim games is probably the best tank simulator out there and it comes out with new content and updates that don't come in the form of DLCs or Addons, but on the other hand they charge everyone $115 (or alternatively a $40 a year subscription) for their game.
Whether that's better or worse is really up to you, it sort of becomes a miniature capitalist vs communist thing in an odd way (not really, but you get what I mean).

Now to be clear, THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE OF TRAIN SIMULATOR 2014.
There are plenty of reasons not to buy that game and you'll probably have no trouble finding them. The game has numerous genuine faults that are inexcusable.

What I want to point out is that this DLC model is not one of those faults.
This practice regarding DLCs and Addons is not unique to them and it occurs elsewhere in the sim genre for a lot of reasons that are arguably somewhat justified (though that can be debated as well).
Train Simulator gets singled out for this in particular because they happen to be Steam and therefore more visible to the mainstream.
Post edited June 11, 2014 by paul1290
Expansions are awesome. I'm happy when expansions come out for games I like, not annoyed. Shadowrun's Dragonfall is better than the main game.

I hate little add-on items and pre-order cheat weapons and such, but not all DLC is like that.
EA is one of the worst offenders IMO. There is no GOTY version for most of their games, so you have no choice but buy the DLCs separately. Which are usually seldom discounted.
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JudasIscariot: What if a developer puts out a DLC for one of their older games like with Postal 2? :D

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PaterAlf: Thank you, that really made me laugh!

Btw, where did that pro-drm-thread go? Did GOG delete it, because it was trolling?
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JudasIscariot: I don't recall us deleting a thread...
Well, I was not in the right frame of mind when I started this thread, you may delete it.
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JudasIscariot: AFAIK, we have all the expansions and modules for NWN 1. Not sure if we aren't missing a module but I believe they should all be there...
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Grargar: According to damien's list, GOG is still missing the Pirates of the Sword Coast, Infinite Dungeons and Wyvern Crown of Cormyr modules.
This is because these premium modules were never bundled with an edition of the game, as others were.
Post edited June 11, 2014 by rawmilk905
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rawmilk905: Well, I was not in the right frame of mind when I started this thread, you may delete it.
I don't see a strong reason to delete this thread.

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rawmilk905: This is because these premium modules were never bundled with an edition of the game, as others were.
I guess so, but then neither did Mysteries of the Westgate and it's available here.
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Neobr10: I guess you wouldn't buy games like Doom, DN3D, or Quake since they had a bunch of expansions and mission packs. Oh, don't forget about Neverwinter Nights, which had quite a few expansions. Rollercoaster Tycoon as well.
I would, have, and do. Such games that are on GOG are complete editions, or at least, the most complete editions that were editions. I am actually a fan of expansions, I just prefer to have everything together in one installer, not little bits of things everywhere, taking hours or days to install. I was not in the right frame of mind when I started this thread and I do regret some of the tone I used and the way I initially presented it. Also, it is only because I love GOG and how they do things that I so rabidly attack any perceived changes/shifts due to "market pressures," publisher demands, "growth," etc. I would like to know if development of content for a game is finished before purchasing, but it seems the only sure way to do that is to hold off and avoid purchasing the newer indie games. If moderators feel that there is any benefit to this thread they may leave it. As far as I am concerned, it can be deleted.
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mqstout: GOG should do what it did for a couple titles for all titles with DLC: When DLC comes out, delist the main product, make a new listing that is main product +all DLC, and apply a (properly scaled) purchase discount for the new product for those who already have the "base". DLC shouldn't be listed/sold separately.
I agree completely, but I understand it's not always possible. Usually these decisions depend on devs/publishers I guess. That's why I was targeting them here.

This whole thing started with me reading the announcement for Desktop Dungeons/Goatperson while in a horrible cranky mood.
Post edited June 11, 2014 by rawmilk905
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Grargar: According to damien's list, GOG is still missing the Pirates of the Sword Coast, Infinite Dungeons and Wyvern Crown of Cormyr modules.
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JudasIscariot: Ahh right, those modules. I am not sure what was the deal with them as I remember those from back in the day when they were first released (think back when NWN was in box form and gracing store shelves). Perhaps those were on a time limited deal or something.

edit: we do, however, have all of the major expansions. That I know 100% :)
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JudasIscariot: Now I see that those modules were premium modules and I think there were some issues with those, mostly legal ones. What the exact issues were, I don't know as of this time.
Here's a thread from me on a decidedly more helpful day addressing these: http://www.gog.com/forum/neverwinter_nights_series/nwn_essentials_imho/page1
I don't mind DLC when it is genuinely new content designed to expand the game or add new scenarios, and when it's clear it wasn't just held back from the original game. Good examples are the Fallout 3 expansions or the recent Don't Starve content. What I do object to is when developers clearly just leave stuff out so that they can charge you for it ("oh hey, here's a character class which totally should have been in the base game, but we're selling it separately!"), or endless skin packs and other fluff.

In short, if they devs are giving me a chance to spend more time in their world doing new things and discovering new stories, it's all good. But when they are just trying to milk me for stuff that should have been there from the get-go, they lose my patronage.
As it was other things in my life I was angry about when I posted this, not DLC, and I was using a minor annoyance to rant about something, I do apologize for the tone of some of my earlier posts.

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rawmilk905: This is because these premium modules were never bundled with an edition of the game, as others were.
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Grargar: I guess so, but then neither did Mysteries of the Westgate and it's available here.
Well, any place that sells the complete edition as opposed to the gold or platinum editions does include MoW.
Post edited June 11, 2014 by rawmilk905
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rawmilk905: Well, any place that sells the complete edition as opposed to the gold or platinum editions does include MoW.
off topic, but your acronym had me wondering if there were any lawn mowing games. FYI, there are quite a lot of them. From lawnmower racing to actually mowing a lawn. If someone is that bored and wants to mow a lawn, my lawn is available to get your game on and I'll even supply the gas and lawnmower. Oh, and all the free game play you can get, until the mower runs out of gas.
Post edited June 11, 2014 by VABlitz
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rawmilk905: Well, any place that sells the complete edition as opposed to the gold or platinum editions does include MoW.
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VABlitz: off topic, but your acronym had me wondering if there were any lawn mowing games. FYI, there are quite a lot of them. From lawnmower racing to actually mowing a lawn. If someone is that bored and wants to mow a lawn, my lawn is available to get your game on and I'll even supply the gas and lawnmower. Oh, and all the free game play you can get, until the mower runs out of gas.
You just gave me a flashback to SimAnt, where I think your colony had to avoid the lawnmower.
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JudasIscariot: What if a developer puts out a DLC for one of their older games like with Postal 2? :D

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PaterAlf: Thank you, that really made me laugh!

Btw, where did that pro-drm-thread go? Did GOG delete it, because it was trolling?
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JudasIscariot: I don't recall us deleting a thread...
We have always been at war with Eurasia.
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koima57: ALL HAIL, THE DLC DUKE!!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/
It's an interesting point to bring to our attention but why here?
Your talk of trains has derailed the thread! (see what I did there?)
But seriously why not a new thread?
Post edited June 12, 2014 by Fever_Discordia
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koima57: ALL HAIL, THE DLC DUKE!!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/
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Fever_Discordia: It's an interesting point to bring to our attention but why here?
Your talk of trains has derailed the thread! (see what I did there?)
But seriously why not a new thread?
Oh, that one with its 170 dlc's at sick prices really stood out as abusive to me. Just so.. :)
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Fever_Discordia: It's an interesting point to bring to our attention but why here?
Your talk of trains has derailed the thread! (see what I did there?)
But seriously why not a new thread?
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koima57: Oh, that one with its 170 dlc's at sick prices really stood out as abusive to me. Just so.. :)
No, no, it's OK, its just me going completely mad - I could have swore I was reading this in the 'What Did Just Update' thread - never even heard of this thread - I must be getting senile early!

Sorry, yeah, your find was an EXCELLENT addition to this thread - totally nailed it!

*takes self out the back, shoots self*