Which is one reason hardly anyone here in the UK wants to join the EU fully - beggars belief our politicians jumped from EFTA to EEC in the 1970s. Switzerland STILL benefit greatly from EFTA (amongst other countries that co-created it with the UK as a counter to EEC)...

we've been long promised a referendum on Europe, but it's always been waved away as "unnecessary" because of EU laws and regulations not being "different" enough from UK laws/procedures to warrant it. In fact, the politicians KNOW it'd be a resoundingly massive "No" vote, and they want it to be "Yes" before they offer it.

TBH, I think the Euro's going to fail LONG before the Pound :P Once we stop bailing it out, anyway....

They can't get it wrong while the state is there to share their errors and let them keep their successes. A bit like the East Indian Company in its time.

Now I haven't read this report, so I won't comment on that except for the fact that if you take comparable reports made in the early 70's, they saw Japan as nr 1 and France before Germany...

The fun think being that your most eurosceptic politicians, for all their public support, are sometimes far worse than what they criticize.

Now, in my opinion, the UK joining Europe was a clear mistake for both the UK ( against the will and interest of its citizens ) and Europe ( a smaller Europe would have been vastly different and would probably not have made some of its most stupid decisions) .

On the Pound, I'm quite sure that the pound will still be there for a lot of time. Maybe not its divisionals though, on a longer term ( someone remembers that the Icelandic Crown once had a divisionnal ? ) :P ( kidding you )

Sarcasm, I think you got, but still needed to make the point.

I haven't seen the report either, but I trust Pesto, he's pissed off so many people that he wouldn't put it out like this without some backing, and in this case it's probably available to all if we know where to look: blog.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm driving a Saturn SL with 200,000 miles on it, it runs fine. Sure, the interior is shitty, it's one of the shittiest cars made in the US, I wouldn't call it bad overall, though (how can it be, running for 200,000 miles with severe abuse?). At any rate, the auto industry is hardly the only US manufacturing. HP and GE, for example, are every bit as big in the US as any of the car companies.

The US has problems, but complaining about their manufacturing is kind of weird, we employ relatively few people in manufacturing.

I would say that it is bedtime for democracy. Stronger, more effective systems of government will come instead, perhaps aided by the increasing power of technology.

That's because if you are in manufacturing in the US, you are probably in a union, and you'll want a higher pay every fucking year that you don't deserve. No wonder anyone with a factory moved overseas - cheap labor is extremely enticing if you intend to make money somehow.

I'm no fan of unions and I don't disagree with your point. It is complicated though. It's only natural for the workers to feel cheated when they see how the higher-ups live, what with their 10 luxury cars and extravagant yacht parties that Paris Hilton was paid to attend (generalizations, I know, but it is the case sometimes). Why should they want to work more efficiently at an hourly rate just so the bosses can earn more, while they're barely getting by and being treated like dirt? It's also natural for the angry taxpayer to demand money for themselves from the government when they see their taxes go to corporations in the form of subsidies and bailouts so that they can continue to operate as usual.

I don't care for unions or social welfare, but I can understand why people have petitioned for it. A lot of good could be done in the U.S. by ending subsidies on all levels and enforcing the people's rights (corporations should not be treated like people) in the courts, IMO.

Just looking at the current situation in many arabian countries I would get the impression that the complete opposite is taking place. Your prediction power seems to be negative. :)

For me UK is a third world country. Just remove the imports and the living standard drops to abyss levels. Welcome to low life UK. Where are the people from GB from the past if i may ask ? The real production is a joke and you can only import from other countries. Funny how the NON politicians of GB talks about the Euro. But the pound is even worse. The pound is worthless because there is no production behind it. GB has nothing to offer and well in other words > bankrupt...

Sorry, but you're full of shit. where are you getting these "facts" from? cite your sauce!
We're only in middling trouble at the moment due to the last government's spending policy. That's being dealt with, arguably badly, but no doubt about its effectiveness. Even most of European and American financial experts agree it's the right thing to do for us.

As I said previously, we still have a fair manufacturing capability, across many sectors, and TCoN to rely on for imports/exports, rather than the abortion that is the European Union. However much the politicians and some rags wish we were deeper integrated.

One sure way of helping reduce the debt, and deficit is to STOP "DONATING" £00s BILLIONS to bailing out Portugal, Greece, Italy, Spain, former Eastern Bloc states, etc. Even France is looking a little shaky, and it wasn't that long ago that there was speculation Germany was as pissed off as we were about the Euro, and might be considering returning to the DM.

All in all, we're a damn sight better off than at least half of Europe, debt and deficit or no debt and deficit.
How long THAT lasts after Labour get in next is a matter of concern, yes, but until that happens..... *shrug*

And yet it's the tories who let billions in corporate tax just vanish into thin air I mean seriously once loans etc into the private sector are repayed we're STILL in less debt than when the tories left power!

Oh don't get me wrong, Tories are arses, too, but at least they CAN balance a budget, and repair the messes of Labour - selling the ENTIRE gold reserves at BELOW market prices, when they were at their lowest point in a century? just so they can waste a few more millions on projects they later cancel?? And worse!.

Look at the mess in the 1970s Labour got us into with rampant union power! Maggie broke them utterly, and we had 20-25 years of relative calmness - although there's a couple now trying to regain their power - BA's mess with aircrew, for example : UK Aircrew are the HIGHEST paid aircrew in the world, and they want MORE?? Bullshit!

Lib-Dems are a joke of what remains of 2 failed parties : never gonna get in power. They can't even be bothered to run a full manifesto!
Monarchy, or resurrect Screaming Lord Sutch!

Edit : forgot a word. "20-25 years of"

The thing that annoys me is theres no way to start a successful new party atm FPTP doesn't allow it. People see a vote not for the big 3(soon to be 2 again at this rate) as a wasted vote smaller parties do win some seats but thats generally from areas where all the big parties have screwed up hugely or don't run against the person who wins..

You could probably get the student vote right now if you were able to guarentee a reduction of tuition fees to their current level (who ever thought allowing 9k fee's was a good thing should be shot on sight) but you'd lose corporation support as you'd have to increase (read make them actually pay) corporation taxes.

Patents and copyrights are another bugbear life+90 freaking years! So you create something and your grandkids or even your great grandkids should profit from it?? WTH?? Thats like me working for a year then telling the company they have to pay me the rest of my life and then pay my family for 90 years after that...

Where i have these data from. I have seen them years ago and i have seen UK myself. And i have been to some 3rd world countries. Just as i told you: Remove the imports for UK and you will see it. UK has a huge current account deficit. It is a dual deficit which is always a danger. Well the budget deficit is well beyond 10% in UK. When does the government in UK start so save money ? They can put a foreclosed sign in front of the Buckingham palace. But as i said it can be repaired you just have to remove the criminals from your government with their banksters.