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I'd be happy for Bethesda to take over any classic old game series thats languishing.
I don't think they've made a bad game since back in their 2d days, and i'd definitely pick their version of System Shock or Deus Ex over a lot of the other studios out there.
Heck. A bethesda made System Shock or Deus Ex would rock... I might put valve ahead of them on my list, but only just.
When did it become so cool to hate bethesda for making good games?
When did Bethesda make good games?
I think the last time that happened was over 10 years ago, with Daggerfall. Morrowind was decent, but it was the beacon of a trend that involves games almost dumbing down to a point where even a monkey can play 5 mins of it and understand what's going on
Post edited February 01, 2009 by lowyhong
when did bethesda last make a bad game? or even an average game?
I guess theiir drag racing and bowling games have been kinda sucky... but those always seemed like a niche side product. Their main games list is pretty darn impressive.
Half the people bitch about morrowind being too dumbed down from Daggerfall, half the people bitch its the opposite. People are just as split on oblivion. And it seems on Fallout3 too. I guess lots of people just like to bitch... instead of just playing the game.
I'd take a bethesda game over 90% of the other stuff thats out there... and i'd take a new fallout/arcanum/planescape/system shock/deus ex/ultima underworld over no new fallout/arcanum/planescape/system shock/deus ex/ultima underworld.
right now i have to go and complain about christopher nolan ruining batman by changing it a little.... sigh
I think that Fallout 3 is a great game. Sure, they didn't make the first and second one, but I felt that they really did the Fallout IP justice. The only other company I'd trust to do it justice would be either BioWare or Gas Powered Games and definitely NOT Lionhead Games. So maybe a reimagining (I hate the word "remake") of possibly one of the greatest RPGs of all time, KOTOR would be nice. Pie in the sky, sure. But that's just me. Then again, KOTOR isn't that old...
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lowyhong: When did Bethesda make good games?
I think the last time that happened was over 10 years ago, with Daggerfall. Morrowind was decent, but it was the beacon of a trend that involves games almost dumbing down to a point where even a monkey can play 5 mins of it and understand what's going on
perhaps they were going after a different demographic, GIRLs.
Like I said, I typically find that more girls enjoy Oblivion than say, Morrowind. And someone who typically enjoyed Morrowind but does not prefer Oblivion, is a guy.
Girls love Oblivion.. I have shared this data with many people, including women, and to me it almost seems like a fact.
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lowyhong: When did Bethesda make good games?
I think the last time that happened was over 10 years ago, with Daggerfall. Morrowind was decent, but it was the beacon of a trend that involves games almost dumbing down to a point where even a monkey can play 5 mins of it and understand what's going on
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Weclock: perhaps they were going after a different demographic, GIRLs.
Like I said, I typically find that more girls enjoy Oblivion than say, Morrowind. And someone who typically enjoyed Morrowind but does not prefer Oblivion, is a guy.
Girls love Oblivion.. I have shared this data with many people, including women, and to me it almost seems like a fact.

Because guys love the expansion... more sadistic and evil.
Ok first since we touched on the subject of Fallout let me say up front I am a huge Fallout fan. I've lost count of how many times I replayed Fallout 1 maximising the various character combinations, enjoying the story or just generally speed running the game. Same applies for Fallout 2.
And at first like many I was genuinely against Bethesda making a sequel. But my compulsive nature got the best of me and I purchased Fallout 3. Ever since the more I play it the more I enjoy the game. It is most definitely nothing like the Fallout we knew since Black Isle nor was it intended to be. I'm actually thankful it isn't for them to attempt that would be meaningless. However going through the story and the side quests several times I have got a feeling that these guys really did their homework. Not in the sense of replicating the Fallout universe at 1:1 ratio but rather making it something familiar and yet their own. Yes it has been simplified in parts, yes it in some of the other moments it feels like Oblivion, you can see it in the stiff characters or the moronic AI but personally when I walk out into the great outdoors and see the vast wasteland in front of me the environment just clicks and all the negatives are melded away. What can I say, I suppose I'm just mad about post apocalypse games. :)
Post edited February 01, 2009 by Almak
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soulgrindr: when did bethesda last make a bad game? or even an average game?
I guess theiir drag racing and bowling games have been kinda sucky... but those always seemed like a niche side product. Their main games list is pretty darn impressive.
Half the people bitch about morrowind being too dumbed down from Daggerfall, half the people bitch its the opposite. People are just as split on oblivion. And it seems on Fallout3 too. I guess lots of people just like to bitch... instead of just playing the game.
I'd take a bethesda game over 90% of the other stuff thats out there... and i'd take a new fallout/arcanum/planescape/system shock/deus ex/ultima underworld over no new fallout/arcanum/planescape/system shock/deus ex/ultima underworld.

I wouldn't say the issue is that Bethesda makes bad games, but rather that they've become a one-trick pony, and their trick has already gotten a bit old. Bethesda did the open world RPG thing fairly well for a while, but they haven't innovated with it at all, and if anything have only simplified it as they continue to chop out RPG elements, with each game they make seeming to devolve more into action/FPS. When they're just doing this to their own IP it's unfortunate but ultimately not much of an issue, but when they then set their sights on other beloved old games it becomes much more of an issue. This is because all of those old games each had something unique about them that made them memorable, and if Fallout 3 is any indication Bethesda would tackle any sequel by stripping out all the things that made the original unique, then shoehorning the basic game world into their own tired, generic formula.
There's also the issue is that Bethesda is pretty abysmal when it comes to QA testing, and even worse when it comes patching up the things they screwed up on the initial release. And you can forget about any kind of customer service when their product doesn't work for you (in pretty much every case the community has had to step up to fix the issues that Bethesda wouldn't).
So when the question comes up of Bethesda making a sequel to some old game that isn't theirs, the worry of many is that what we'll end up seeing is a buggy, generic, homogenized action RPG/FPS that is ultimately little more than Oblivion re-skinned to whatever game world Bethesda managed to get their hands on.
I don't want a new system shock, or deus ex for that matter. I don't even care if Bethesda does it or not, because the simple fact is that if these games get sequels they are not going to be anything like the originals, and I'd like to keep my memories and fond nostalgic moments intact and not soiled by the not on par sequels. It doesn't matter who makes them, because if someone does make these big name sequels they are going to be big name companies, and in general, big name companies = crappier than the original. God I wish Interplay, Westwood, and even Sierra were still around.
Deus Ex 3 is indeed being developed, although not by Bethesda. The art design is downright painful and the gameplay sounds like it will be even more consolised than Invisible War.
The lure of the bigger market, and the bigger payoff strike again?
One of the reasons we value certain older games is because the vision of the game's main designer was allowed to be fully realised without thinking too much about the bottom line.
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soulgrindr: I guess lots of people just like to bitch... instead of just playing the game.

I tried, and I came away disappointed. There have been games where I went in with very low expectations, and came out pleasantly surprised eg. Chronicles of Riddick. Unfortunately, Fallout 3 isn't one of them
For the record though, comparing Bethesda to Christopher Nolan is unfair. To Chris I mean
Post edited February 03, 2009 by lowyhong