First off, thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Now then. I've been enjoying Legend of Grimrock over the past week, and have decided I need some more classic first person dungeon crawling. I know there are Dungeon Master and EOTB emulators out there, but don't want to go back quite that far graphically, if I can help it. I'd like to find something a bit more recent. I've been perusing GOG to see what some good options are, and Ive focused on the following two, and would like input:

1) Lands of Lore 1&2

2) Might &Magic 7&8



Things I'm looking for in order of priority.

1) Must have flexibility in class build and party makeup. Re-playability from exploring different options and loadouts. High priority.


2) Prefer more dungeon crawl, than RPG. Focus on immersive environment, and exploration. Not really looking so much for a conversation game. The more "dungeony" the better.


3) Looking for game with rewarding secrets and loot to find, not too much, not too little. Not looking for Diablo. I want to really value that first dagger I find, but I don't want to be stuck with it the entire game.


4) Playability. Interface as painless as can be expected for the age of the game. Grid based movement is fine, as long as I can do things quickly and efficiently. I'd be fine with a more modern free movement first person dungeon crawl, but as far as I know that's only Arx Fatalis and I've already played that.


5)Party Based. Would prefer 4 or more characters (I notice LOL is only 3), but am flexible, as long as point #1 is satisfied.


6) Prefer Combat over puzzles. Puzzles are fine to break up the action, but I'd rather be running from terrifying monsters. LoG was a bit puzzle heavy for my tatses, but I can't complain for lack of competition.



Anyway, thank you again for reading the lengthy post, and I value any input you have over the two choices, or if you think there's actually a better choice available on GOG.

If you mean Lands of Lore, at least with Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos you get a fixed party, meaning that you don't get to make your own party except for the starting character. Haven't played Lands of Lore 2.

Don't have M&MVII, have M&MVIII but have not played it yet, but I know you get to select who will join your party there (you start with a single character).

Ishar Compilation is party-based, but that is as far as I know of the series.

Sorry, yes. Corrected.

Based on your criteria, my reccomendation would be Icewind Dale.
It is party based (up to 6).
It is old school d&d & there is some conversation, but the focus is solidly on dungeoncrawling.
It has an isometric 3rd person interface.
And it is absolutely awesome!

I was under impressions that he is looking for first-person perspective RPGs, no?

Yes, Icewind Dale is great, but I own all the infintiy engine games. Was looking for something a bit more old school and first person, sorry if i wasn't clear on that part. Something more in the spirit of Dungeon Master, but more recent (than 1987, anyway), with the above points in mind. Keep in mind Legend of Grimrock is what inspired this post.

I do appreciate the suggestion, though. Thanks!

This might be also an interesting choice - http://www.gog.com/gamecard/realms_of_arkania_3 - but it has turnbased combat, not that silly click-icons DM-like thing.

All M&M from VI to VIII are first person and free movement (no grid). Also they are quite open ended, although you have a main plot, you get to do a lot (I mean a LOT) of side quests in any order you choose, some related to the main story, many others are not. Combat has a bit of a tactical side, not as much as the infinity engine games though.

Personally I have very fond memories of M&M VI, but maybe VII would be a better choice for you, it's basically the same game in terms of gameplay, but with a little graphic revamp, and fantasy races (in VI you can only be human). VIII is good also but weirder, you have a party of classical fantasy baddies: dark elves, vampires and minotaurs.

EDIT: about the party thing, you have in all of them a party of four people, you can choose between a preloaded party or make up your own. There are a lot of choices: race (not in VI), class, ability scores and quite a bunch of skills (f.i: archery, bodybuilding, 7 schools of magic, etc.)

.

Thank you for this post, symariscal. Exactly the kind of input I was looking for.

I'll just add to svmariscal's text about M&M games:
-some dungeons are just "go in and kill everything in sight", some require you to solve puzzles.
-apart from a few items, artifacts and relics are found randomly in certain places, mostly in harder parts.
-they are very replayable with different party makeup, though keep in mind that certain combinations may make the game much harder (like every party member will have the same class).

M&M is a sure bet based on your criteria. I've only played M&M7, which is arguably regarded as the better of the two.
Plenty of faffing about with your character stats and skills, and exploration. Dialogue is generally pretty poor and unimportant, but hey, that's ok.
As for the controls, it's playable in its default state, if a bit fiddly, but I do recommend installing the unofficial fan patch found on the Celestial Heavens forums, which adds mouse look among many other things and fixes.

If you are willing to venture outside the collection on GOG, you can always give the Wizardry games a try especially Wizardry 6-8 since you can carry your party over from one to the other.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. I am definitely thinking M&M now.. I appreciate you taking the time to read the thread and comment.
I actually played Wizardry back in the day, and would love to again, but I'm not going to pirate, and don't believe in "abandonware". As soon as Gog adds them to their roster, I will happily snag the Wizardry games. It's actually one of my last holdouts for the GoG catalog.

Thanks everyone for their input.!

Didn't think I was implying piracy, figured ebay would have some copies for cheap :D.

Yeah what's the deal with Wizardry and GOG anyway, you'd think it would be here considering they are Sir-Tech games, and the Jagged Alliance series is here.