It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
...Seriously again, it is moments like these I HATE being a catholic.
No minister Washington...I don't want you to nail me like Jesus on top of that altar.
In response to a few statements, made in different posts throughout this thread...
God is love. God came to Earth to elevate Mankind from misery and death to joy and life. He formed the Church to continue this work until the end of time.
The Church comprises at least two groups, traditionally referred to as the Church Militant and the Church Triumphant. The Church Triumphant refers to those persons partaking of the sacraments instituted by Christ, who love God, and who are also "dead" in the eyes of the world, residing now with Christ until judgment day. The Church Militant are those persons still on Earth, baptized and struggling to love God and not sin.
The Church, which is the Catholic Church, teaches that men are inclined to sin since they broke with God and followed their own will. In other words, since the Fall of man, as it was told in Genesis. The sins of priests are further evidence of man's inclination to sin. All sin originates from the failing of some individual. The sins of priests are particularly grievous because of the priest's responsibility to be the first example to the world of the love of Christ. How paedophiles have been attracted to the priesthood, how these particular men were tempted and fell into such terrible and hurtful sins against children, is not something I am aware has been brought to light. In this modern age, where less people believe in God and less people are Catholic due to the continuing individualization effect of Protestantism, perhaps more persons tempted to homosexuality have been admitted to the priesthood in an effort to bolster the waning number of priests. Since those subject to this temptation try to make themselves useful and holy by joining the priesthood, the consequence would be more paedophiles in the priesthood since more person are there to succumb to this sin. A theory.
In any case, the Church was not conceived to simply teach about the Bible. The Church was founded by Christ, before the Bible was written. It is ironically argued, by textual evidence or by assertion, that scripture is the only means for Christians to know the will and character of God. Reason, the Natural Law, Sacred Tradition and Holy Scripture are all ways of knowing God's will and character. The Church, in the form of the bishops in union with Christ's designated vicar i.e. the Pope, properly interprets Holy Scripture because the Church wrote the scripture to begin with.
Not all members of the Church are going to heaven. Neither does the Church teach that its bishops or priests are going to heaven, by virtue of their office, without integrity, truth or love.
I don't mean to insult or degrade anyone. I bear no one any ill will. I am a Catholic layperson and I must speak out, for love's sake.
avatar
Navagon: LOL I would have thought that was an April fools if it wasn't the Times and it wasn't a week early.
But yes, this isn't too surprising, unfortunately. Catholicism boils down to being the world's biggest paedophile fan club.
avatar
Gundato: Just like how atheism is the world's largest baby killing and religious persecuting club.
Oh, we aren't just basing incredibly offensive opinions off of sample bias and the news media? My mistake...

Where's your baby? Grrrrrr...
avatar
domgrief: Debate continues about who authored some of the books, but with the exception of a few passages, I think the general consensus is that the books are unaltered from the original text.

Even comparing the various versions of the Bible to each other throws that into dispute. That said, Spanish ones are generally supposed to be better translated.
But all of this is even before we even touch on the fact that the Bible was first put to page 50 to 100 years after Jesus' death. Ever played Chinese whispers? Now imagine relying on word of mouth for at least five decades.
That makes even the Vatican's corruptive influence and the many problems with translation from languages with so few descriptive words seem largely inconsequential by comparison.
avatar
Navagon: Even comparing the various versions of the Bible to each other throws that into dispute. That said, Spanish ones are generally supposed to be better translated.

Spanish and German versions of the bible were largely regarded to be superior to their English equivalents.
In 1611.
There are now dozens of English translations, including many which are only a few years old (HSCB, TNIV, NET) and were worked on by large teams of scholars, fluent in the text's original languages, and with consensus about almost every passage. Most differences in each translation are stylistic.
There are also good reasons why there would be a substantial lag between events and the writing of the gospels that followed. I have derailed this thread enough, but I encourage anyone interested in this to do some research.
avatar
darkness58ec: In this modern age, where less people believe in God and less people are Catholic due to the continuing individualization effect of Protestantism...

This is a minor point, but there are actually increasing numbers of Catholics at this point in time. There are nearly 1.2 billion Catholics in the world today, almost triple the number there were 60 years ago and just about a sixth of the world's entire population. Catholicism is still the absolute largest "branch" of the Christian faith. Africa is where the greatest increase in Catholicism is occurring, but worldwide, there really has been absolutely no decline in the number of people who consider themselves Catholic. Whether or not they are actually all practicing Catholics, that is an interesting question.
Post edited March 26, 2010 by cogadh
By the way, tell me again why the Gospel of Thomas was rejected by the church?
That is what I have heard about the Church in Africa as well.
Atheism and a self-defined mindset is what has been going on in Western countries, where there has been a decline in the number of priests.
avatar
KavazovAngel: By the way, tell me again why the Gospel of Thomas was rejected by the church?

Basically, what it boils down to is they (the Church) decided they just didn't like it. Some thought it was fake, others considered it heretical, but in the end, it just didn't "fit in" with what they were trying to do when establishing the early New Testament books. The funny part is, the only existing ancient copy of the Gospel of Thomas actually pre-dates nearly all of the known ancient copies of the current canon gospels (outside the Church archives, of course, who knows what they have hidden in their basement). For all we know, Thomas came first and the current gospels are just derivatives of it, at least partially.
Sometimes I'm amazed {ashamed?) that I can relate any conversation back to videogames, but... yeah, there's a flash game for it:
http://www.ultimateflashgame.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=749&Itemid=1
avatar
darkness58ec: Atheism and a self-defined mindset is what has been going on in Western countries, where there has been a decline in the number of priests.

Or it could be because there are like 100 different Christian denominations you could join rather than Catholicism. Just because someone isn't a Catholic doesn't mean he counts as a non-believer.
avatar
KavazovAngel: By the way, tell me again why the Gospel of Thomas was rejected by the church?
avatar
cogadh: Basically, what it boils down to is they (the Church) decided they just didn't like it. Some thought it was fake, others considered it heretical, but in the end, it just didn't "fit in" with what they were trying to do when establishing the early New Testament books. The funny part is, the only existing ancient copy of the Gospel of Thomas actually pre-dates nearly all of the known ancient copies of the current canon gospels (outside the Church archives, of course, who knows what they have hidden in their basement). For all we know, Thomas came first and the current gospels are just derivatives of it, at least partially.

They did not like it... exactly. Because it conflicts with their interests, it conflicts with the very existance of the church as an institution.