What DarkPhoenix so eloquently states is whats wrong with the US tax system, among other things. I wish he would finish his analysis.

Go Darrk Go! Keep going bro! :)

Ditto. I think he was onto a good explanation of the complexity that invites abuse and creates frustration.

To illustrate all the little ways we're taxed, here's what I pay (maybe missed a few):

- SS and Medicare at the full 15.3% rate since I'm self-employed.
- Federal income tax, after business and personal deductions. I don't claim everything on the biz side since it's a pain to track every little detail. Our effective rate last year was 28%.
- Derived from the federal return is our state return. It's around 8%.

Because of deductions (mostly business expenses), those three taxes account for around 40% of our gross income instead of 51.3%. Along with those come:

- Personal property tax, which comes from the village and is based on the assessment of the real estate we own (the house and the lot it sits on). The lion's share goes to the local schools. It's about 1.5% of the market value.
- Personal property tax on my business. I gave up trying to keep track of 5- and 7-year depreciation schedules so the village raises the valuation by some blanket amount each year and I avoid a week of pulling out my hair. This also covers the parts I buy for resale since they are counted as property until sold. Also around 1.5%
- Fuel tax but we all pay that, hidden in the price of fuel. My state has one of the highest, and the combined state/fed rate is 51.3 cents per gallon. The wife and I combined used roughly 1,300 gallons last year (I drive a lot to visit my customers) so figure $670
- Our state retail sales tax is 5%, and the local levy is 0.5%, for 5.5% combined. Most food is exempt. Everyone pays in varying degrees.
- Taxes slapped on hotel rooms, varying from one town to the next. I travel a bit for work so I pay this, too. Usually around 10% combined, on maybe 50 nights per year.

All told, it's probably around 43-45%, depending on whether or not we made a large retail purchase in any given year. For instance, we bought a used vehicle in April so that was another $1,100 in sales tax.

That's all my best guess. It's a decent guess but a guess nonetheless - so many out there that it's all-but-unrealistic to track all of them.

I guess you aren't as fortunate as me to also have property tax on your vehicle. For my 2006 I still pay $75 per year and that is in addition to license plates and my inspection sticker.

Yeah, what DarkPhoenix said. The problems I have with our tax system is based on what we get in return for these taxes. Giving money to businesses that are too big to fail. Our war machine juggernaut. Giving money to unfavorable nations and favorable nations. War on drugs BS.

Edit: property tax is about $180/year on my vehicle, the 75/year is my plates.

So how is it not true then? You mean because long term cap gains are taxed at ZERO for the lower brackets, which those CEOs cheat themselves in to?

dude atleast people protest over there, here with one of the highest taxes and every chance they get to snatch money from you they do and people still dont say anything

I don't get what taxes pay for in your country:

- healthcare - hell no!
- education - your public schools are a joke, so no
- law enforcement - hmm yes
- military - yup
- alphabet soup spooks - check
- regulatory agencies - check
- infrastructure such as roads, railroads, etc... - I've no idea

You people already fend for yourselves but your tax situation is a helluva lot better than it is in some EU countries, like the one I live in. If you stop paying taxes who's gonna pay for the 'murican war machine then? We can't have that now, can we? The terrorists might win (tm)

You definitely need higher taxes to fund all those wars you're fighting in.

There was a guy in the news recently who paid his property tax bill in one-dollar bills... and it was over seven thousand dollars. He was "protesting" because his kids are home-schooled and don't use the school system. And if the idea of that is "it mostly goes to schools", then we're not getting our money's worth.

Free country my a$$. Throwing money away to a government that obviously doesn't know what to do with it irks me.

That's actually very interesting, because in some news articles down here Steve Jobs was earlier praised for doing that, as if he was working for no monetary gain, but just for the love of the technology or something. Apparently the writers of those Apple-buttlicking articles didn't know the full picture...

We used to pay that, when we lived in Georgia. The property tax rate on real estate was cheaper but they made up for it with ad valorem on vehicles. If memory serves, we were paying $600-800 per year, on three cars. Oh, the inspections, too. Now it's just annual registration here in WI. Gonna do away with that cost on two cars since they're now classics - just gotta get off my butt to get those plates. That'll save $150 per year after the second year.

The federal government spends more on healthcare than it does on the military. Just because we don't have single-payer (Read: government. Read: taxpayer) health care across the boards, it does not mean we don't spend an assload of tax (and debt) money on it at both the federal and state levels.

The schools are tougher to declare as a "joke". Funding is predominantly done at the state level, so each state sets its own spending level (fed sets some spending rules, and puts some in the pot). The results are widespread with some states performing quite well and others doing rather poorly. And at upwards of $10,000 per kid annually across the country (https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66), it's hard to argue that not enough money is being thrown at it.



Note that if military spending dropped to zero tomorrow and stayed that way, we'd still be running an annual budget deficit.

Long term rates are reduced for everyone. These supposed CEOs that are "cheating" still fall in higher income brackets then the lowest one. Salary is not the only consideration for income. The US tax code is a complete mess, nothing is simple or straight forward.

Its pretty fucking simple, they pay themselves 1$ salary to pay less or next to no capital gains taxes on their real income.

Well you obviously have your beliefs and won't be persuaded by facts. It's not simple, capital gains, dividends, and interest, etc. all count towards ones income. Then on top of that we have AMT (alternative minimum tax), which kicks in under certain circumstances. You can't just take $1 salary and put yourself in the bottom bracket, it doesn't work that way - it may keep you from paying higher taxes on a portion of your income from other sources but not all.

Look, I don't care to be put in a situation where I'm defending CEOs which are paid for performance or not (many still make millions if they run a company into the ground). Many of the problems in the US are due to big business and big government working together to "regulate" the economy.