iippo: That would be utterly personal.

Deeply religious person may recover from hard times because he/she will perhaps have support from community, has the possibility to think stuff like "its God's plan" or whatever and sort of accept whatever comes etc..

But really, its nothing magical. The person does not live longer because God gives him or her superhuman powers - rather the person gets support from extended social network and may have various guidelines to rely on.

However, one might have these same supports from hobby, work community, neighbours and so on.

But yes, i do agree that religions may have beneficial effect on people in this sense - but ofcourse there are many flipsides as well. Then again, religions are, or atleast should be rather personal matters in the first place, so everyone should use their own heads and hearts instead of following any group or say-so person to find out if they are any good or not.

Novotnus: I hope you're not trying to justify it?

ThoRn: I have to wonder about some of you atheists myself. I certainly don't believe a true Christian goes around raping and murdering anyone. But an atheist wolf dressed in Christian sheep wool might. How can you have morality without religion? Where does your morality come from? And furthermore how come your morality is so much like mine? We both agree that rape and murder is wrong. But how can that be? I choose not to rape because it's sin and I've got enough self-control to not give into that sin. I do lust however but not so much that's I'd be willing to rape and hurt a woman over it. I prefer it when the woman consents as that makes me feel loved and desired in return. I can't say I'd get any thrill out of raping a woman. Then again, I've never tried it and don't plan on it. If the world were to suddenly fall apart and become completely chaotic I don't know what I'd do or be capable of? I'd still have my religious morals at first but I'm sure brutality of such a savage environment can take a toll on anyone's views in life and force them to change. The old military saying is, "Adapt, improvise, and overcome".

Ever watch "The Walking Dead"? I think that show does a good job of showing how people can change radically in their views on certain issues and before long people learn real quick that it's kill or be killed. Rape or be raped. Eat or starve. Shelter or freeze. Is that the type of world I want? Hell no. I'm comfy with modern day living and all the willing women in short skirts that WANT sex for cheap. I do admit feminism HAS given men some nice benefits.

ThoRn: Well, I'm going to be honest. I don't justify it with the way things are. And it's too difficult to answer how I'd feel if all these things were taken away and we were back to caveman times. I'm sure at first I'd hold onto my religious views against it. But such a brutal and savage world can take a toll on any man's views and they can and will change. It's very easy to sit here and say it's wrong and no I will never do it. Then again, I'm not having to live like a cavemen either and sex is given to me very often to keep my sexual appetite sated. I just had a very large hamburger and French fries for dinner. My stomach is very full and my appetite is sated. Put me someplace where I starving and I'm sure I'd be willing to eat the meat surrounding your asshole. People do what they gotta do to survive. Do I like the thought of that? HELL NO! But then again, I'm not that hungry right now. Ever seen the movie "Alive" where they each the butts of the dead? People gotta do what they gotta do to survive. It's nature. It's easy to sit in judgment when you've not had to walk in those shoes.

ThoRn: I have to wonder about some of you atheists myself. I certainly don't believe a true Christian goes around raping and murdering anyone. But an atheist wolf dressed in Christian sheep wool might. How can you have morality without religion? Where does your morality come from? And furthermore how come your morality is so much like mine? We both agree that rape and murder is wrong. But how can that be? I choose not to rape because it's sin and I've got enough self-control to not give into that sin.

cjrgreen: Even allowing for that, the number of direct descendants of males in the immediate family of Genghis Khan is something extraordinary.

What is invariably overlooked by those who deny the credibility of evolution is that organized religion is itself a tool that powerful men use to force women to bear children for men who use the tools of the religion to control them. As such, it would be an evolutionarily stable strategy par excellence if there were shown to be any kind of inherited foundation for it.

Who needs rape when you can accomplish the same purpose by making submission and reproduction into religious obligations?

jamotide: Really? Where do you get this from the bible? All it says is do not rape virgins, who are betrothed, because it would be like stealing property from another man. The rest of the women are fair game. And in war it is highly encouraged. So I ask you, how did you get morality DESPITE being religious?

kalirion: I'm convinced now, ThoRn is an elaborate troll.

ThoRn: I have to wonder about some of you atheists myself. I certainly don't believe a true Christian goes around raping and murdering anyone.

QC: Why do atheist have morals? Because humans long ago decided that hurting other humans is a dickish way to go about things. Oh, but religious worlds far back, for the past thousands of years have waged wars against other nations, other cultures, other religions for all of Humanity. They killed to serve their country. They killed to serve their gods and bring glory to their gods. The reason why we don't have that today is the world is more inter-reliant and we've come to accept cultural differences, including religious difference. A tribe does not destroy itself when it is surviving reasonably. That's regardless of religion or society.

Reever: I never said it's magic. I only wanted to show that there are benefits to what some people call "fairy tales" and such, without really thinking about the ramifications. People can do many stuff when just believing in them, the human psyche is something we don't understand to the fullest.

And I don't think it had anything to do with the community, it was just something with having an inner peace, or to be more specific less stress. But I'm not sure anymore, so don't take my word on that.

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/health/17faith.html]are some articles I found after doing a quick search on google. And the article I'm talking about might have been in the "Spiegel", but I'm not going to search for it now.

People (especially those who're thinking scientifically, or at least are thinking they do) should maybe consider why something that's unnecessary has been still a part of us as a species for so long. I think the biggest mistake one can make is to say "it's just shit anyway" and be done with it.

ThoRn: Bullshit! You got you moral values from the same source I did. Your parents who were probably religious or their parents were before them and the morals were passed on from parent to child. Ever seen the movie Greystoke about the boy who was shipwrecked on an island with a bunch of chimps? The chimps raised him and years later when he was found as a grown man, he acted like a chimp. They brought him back to his families estate in the UK but he couldn't adapt to civilized society after lots of efforts to educate him and change him. But he still acted out on his chimpish ways from time to time until it was decided he needed to go back to the island and be set free with the chimps that raised him. If you had grown up with no moral religious teachings you'd adapt to the world on your own or by whoever or whatever decided to raise you, be it apes or chimps, or whatever. It's easy for you to claim that the world would have been so perfect without religion and that religion is the root of all evil when that's not true. It's the very thing that's brought people together under a set of values and customs.

ThoRn: Bullshit! You got you moral values from the same source I did. Your parents who were probably religious or their parents were before them and the morals were passed on from parent to child. Ever seen the movie Greystoke about the boy who was shipwrecked on an island with a bunch of chimps? The chimps raised him and years later when he was found as a grown man, he acted like a chimp. They brought him back to his families estate in the UK but he couldn't adapt to civilized society after lots of efforts to educate him and change him. But he still acted out on his chimpish ways from time to time until it was decided he needed to go back to the island and be set free with the chimps that raised him. If you had grown up with no moral religious teachings you'd adapt to the world on your own or by whoever or whatever decided to raise you, be it apes or chimps, or whatever. It's easy for you to claim that the world would have been so perfect without religion and that religion is the root of all evil when that's not true. It's the very thing that's brought people together under a set of values and customs.