Posted November 28, 2015

Crassmaster
Right bastard
Registered: Sep 2008
From Canada

tiny E
Find me in STEAM OT
Registered: Dec 2012
From Other

johnnygoging
I was told there would always be a bigger fish
Registered: Jun 2013
From Canada
Posted November 28, 2015
your repootay. your little number, your gog thermometer, your forum snake, your repootay, man!
nonsense! did you see an emoticon or "emoji" anywhere near that post? law of internet says there must be at least 3 smiley faces per quarter inch for it to be romantic. that's internet laws. or something.
nonsense! did you see an emoticon or "emoji" anywhere near that post? law of internet says there must be at least 3 smiley faces per quarter inch for it to be romantic. that's internet laws. or something.

tiny E
Find me in STEAM OT
Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
Posted November 28, 2015


Post edited November 29, 2015 by tinyE

Crassmaster
Right bastard
Registered: Sep 2008
From Canada
Posted November 29, 2015



skeletonbow
Galaxy 3 when?
Registered: Dec 2009
From Canada
Posted November 29, 2015


(1) Not every country is legally obliged to grant freedom of speech.
(2) Among countries who are legally obliged to do so, most don't actually follow through (e.g. Best Korea).
(3) There's no such thing as "your own website" that no one can interfere with, as a positive right. More generally, there's no positive execution of the right to free speech which can't be judged to infringe on other rights and therefore be illegal.
What I am stating, and this is in the context of how freedom of speech applies to the laws of Canada and the US at least as a legally granted right. By law we are free to speak freely with the exception of hate speech which is well defined and against the law. This means that we can open our mouths and let words come out, whether those words are to an audience, or falling upon deaf ears. We can write those words down freely also and share them with other people through various means. If we own a website or blog or other forum with which to speak (whether we own it or otherwise), we're free to speak there too. But if we do not own the forum in which we are speaking, nobody else is obligated to listen to us. We're free to say our words but the law does not extend that freedom to the point where it prevents a website owner such as say... Facebook from removing the words based on their own criterion.
Freedom of speech allows us to speak, but nobody has to listen to us nor give us a forum with which to be heard. That does not stop us from having freedom of speech however, we can speak all we want wherever we can actually be heard, and the best way to do that is to create your own forum which you're in total control of, such as your own personal website.
Some people think that being censored on a website or forum or whatever violates their freedom of speech. That is nonsense however because no law protects their words in this manner. I'd challenge someone to sue Facebook, Google, CDPR or some other company for censoring something they've said on the basis that their freedom of speech is being violated. I can't say how the laws work in other countries around the world, but such a lawsuit in Canada or the US would be preposterous because the law governing freedom of speech do not protect people in this manner so it would be a frivolous lawsuit.
Having said that, if the freedom of speech laws in your country grant you the right to say whatever you want wherever you like online on website properties owned by other countries and it protects your words on those websites and strips the owners of those sites from having any legal right to delete your words, then my statements do not apply to you and therefore feel free to sue those companies for violation of your country's freedom of speech laws.
Aside from what I've said above, one should note that simply having freedom of speech laws does not mean that these rights never get repressed or abused. There are corrupt government officials, corrupt police, or other situations that may interfere with someone's legally protected rights however that does not mean those rights do not exist, just that they are being abused. But being censored on some company owned web forum (in another country for that matter) does not constitute a violation of freedom of speech, at least not how it is defined by law in North America.
If someone feels otherwise, feel free to sue CDPR (or whatever company or person who has moderated or censored you online) to prove your point and see how far you get in court with claiming your right to freedom of speech was violated. I'll bet money that nobody will get far doing so because no such rights like that exist (whether one chooses to call it freedom of speech or something else).
Update: I'd like to point out that I agree with your point #1, and that nothing I stated previously contradicts that either. There are few places in the world that have legally granted freedom of speech, and many countries that people traditionally think have that protection do not actually. I do not debate this at all. My words only apply where that right does exist in the form to which I consider actual free speech. That means Canada and the US insofar as my words are meant. Other countries may or may not have similar laws but I leave that up as an exercise to the reader to do their own research as to whether a given country has freedom of speech as a legally granted right and what that actually means for them. Again, it is unlikely to protect them from censorship or moderation on privately owned websites.
Post edited November 29, 2015 by skeletonbow

trynoval
FCKDRM
Registered: Oct 2011
From Russian Federation
Posted November 29, 2015

(1) Not every country is legally obliged to grant freedom of speech.
(2) Among countries who are legally obliged to do so, most don't actually follow through (e.g. Best Korea).
(3) There's no such thing as "your own website" that no one can interfere with, as a positive right. More generally, there's no positive execution of the right to free speech which can't be judged to infringe on other rights and therefore be illegal.

What I am stating, and this is in the context of how freedom of speech applies to the laws of Canada and the US at least as a legally granted right. By law we are free to speak freely with the exception of hate speech which is well defined and against the law. This means that we can open our mouths and let words come out, whether those words are to an audience, or falling upon deaf ears. We can write those words down freely also and share them with other people through various means. If we own a website or blog or other forum with which to speak (whether we own it or otherwise), we're free to speak there too. But if we do not own the forum in which we are speaking, nobody else is obligated to listen to us. We're free to say our words but the law does not extend that freedom to the point where it prevents a website owner such as say... Facebook from removing the words based on their own criterion.
Freedom of speech allows us to speak, but nobody has to listen to us nor give us a forum with which to be heard. That does not stop us from having freedom of speech however, we can speak all we want wherever we can actually be heard, and the best way to do that is to create your own forum which you're in total control of, such as your own personal website.
Some people think that being censored on a website or forum or whatever violates their freedom of speech. That is nonsense however because no law protects their words in this manner. I'd challenge someone to sue Facebook, Google, CDPR or some other company for censoring something they've said on the basis that their freedom of speech is being violated. I can't say how the laws work in other countries around the world, but such a lawsuit in Canada or the US would be preposterous because the law governing freedom of speech do not protect people in this manner so it would be a frivolous lawsuit.
Having said that, if the freedom of speech laws in your country grant you the right to say whatever you want wherever you like online on website properties owned by other countries and it protects your words on those websites and strips the owners of those sites from having any legal right to delete your words, then my statements do not apply to you and therefore feel free to sue those companies for violation of your country's freedom of speech laws.
Aside from what I've said above, one should note that simply having freedom of speech laws does not mean that these rights never get repressed or abused. There are corrupt government officials, corrupt police, or other situations that may interfere with someone's legally protected rights however that does not mean those rights do not exist, just that they are being abused. But being censored on some company owned web forum (in another country for that matter) does not constitute a violation of freedom of speech, at least not how it is defined by law in North America.
If someone feels otherwise, feel free to sue CDPR (or whatever company or person who has moderated or censored you online) to prove your point and see how far you get in court with claiming your right to freedom of speech was violated. I'll bet money that nobody will get far doing so because no such rights like that exist (whether one chooses to call it freedom of speech or something else).
Update: I'd like to point out that I agree with your point #1, and that nothing I stated previously contradicts that either. There are few places in the world that have legally granted freedom of speech, and many countries that people traditionally think have that protection do not actually. I do not debate this at all. My words only apply where that right does exist in the form to which I consider actual free speech. That means Canada and the US insofar as my words are meant. Other countries may or may not have similar laws but I leave that up as an exercise to the reader to do their own research as to whether a given country has freedom of speech as a legally granted right and what that actually means for them. Again, it is unlikely to protect them from censorship or moderation on privately owned websites.
That's just not healthy and good for peoples and company itself in long run.
I was complaining about some bad signs of how CDPR/GOG owners doing things.
Now with witcher 3 downgrade, aggressive damage protection and overmoderated forums I'm complaining a lot more.
I like and believe in DRM-Free idea, game support service is still good. But with darkening clouds I'm not a happy buyer.
And I don't wait for new RPG from CDPR, because of story political adoptation in W3, that ruined core meaning of Sapkowski books.

gamesfreak64
Service with a smile :D
Registered: Sep 2014
From Netherlands
Posted November 30, 2015
As for the ability to edit a post anytime at will:
most forums for games and/or onlinegames like browsergames use a 12 or 24 hour period in which a user can edit his/her post, after that its locked and cant be edited any longer.
I played like 15 differnt online browsergames so that made 15 forum accounts (thats 8 years ago, now i have only a few games left cause it took too much time playing all these games)
Most of the time you cant edit the post after 12 or 24 hours have past, basically its 12 hours unless you dont sleep and are awake 24/7.
So i dont get the excitement about not beiing able to edit a post once its made.
Also, reviews , once a user made a review, and pressed okay/done/ send or whatevr text is on the ok button,
these are also not able to be edited lateron, so if its loaded with typoos , thats badluck.
As for limiting speech and replies in fora,, and the freedom of speech, this is also happening a lot in the democratic countries which do have freedom of speech, things are changing rapidly,
So all we can do is : let it come and keep our lips sealed.
most forums for games and/or onlinegames like browsergames use a 12 or 24 hour period in which a user can edit his/her post, after that its locked and cant be edited any longer.
I played like 15 differnt online browsergames so that made 15 forum accounts (thats 8 years ago, now i have only a few games left cause it took too much time playing all these games)
Most of the time you cant edit the post after 12 or 24 hours have past, basically its 12 hours unless you dont sleep and are awake 24/7.
So i dont get the excitement about not beiing able to edit a post once its made.
Also, reviews , once a user made a review, and pressed okay/done/ send or whatevr text is on the ok button,
these are also not able to be edited lateron, so if its loaded with typoos , thats badluck.
As for limiting speech and replies in fora,, and the freedom of speech, this is also happening a lot in the democratic countries which do have freedom of speech, things are changing rapidly,
So all we can do is : let it come and keep our lips sealed.

skeletonbow
Galaxy 3 when?
Registered: Dec 2009
From Canada