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30fps lock, lack of FoV options, mandatory postprocessing (I hate motion blur so much!), lack of crossplay
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mintee: why not make a truly evil villain be one that is normal but has their own agenda/vision that goes contrary to the team. c'mon cant be that hard to write.
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Vainamoinen: Impossible, even. Because the more complex your character is, the more reason you give to their actions, the more you explain why they are what they are, the less "truly evil" they will be perceived as. Right at the bottom of it, "true evil" is terribly banal.

But you're absolutely right in saying that there's a real lack of complex villains in games, and an overwhelming majority of "truly evil", hence banal, adversaries are written in the industry.

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mintee: playing evil dialogue choices are just too stupid. I would love to play evil, but they make it hard with most of the dialogue really insanely tenth grade imbecile bully crap.
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Vainamoinen: Unfortunately in the real world, the insanely tenth grade imbecile bully crap works out great for a bunch of evil people. :|

~snip
i never thought about that, providing more backstory and reasoning to an evil char would elicit empathetic feelings from player; reducing the shock value evil feel. on the other hand it could be epic if done right, building an evil char who does its actions from their point of view which is totally reasonable but from the majority of people would be seen as diabolical, ex. genocide of enemies, sacrificing allies to push agendas/reactions from other factions, betrayal of close companions if it furthered the evil agenda and so on. thats what I want. not jerky hey, im evil, so all my dialogue will be overt bully rather than manipulative intelligence. i saw a bit of that in star wars kotor .

got a chuckle about that real world and bully stuff, yeah, true dat, especially online/customer service complaints but i have hopes that if they tried it in real life more than a few would get 'checked'. lol
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mintee: i never thought about that, providing more backstory and reasoning to an evil char would elicit empathetic feelings from player; reducing the shock value evil feel. on the other hand it could be epic if done right, building an evil char who does its actions from their point of view which is totally reasonable but from the majority of people would be seen as diabolical, ex. genocide of enemies, sacrificing allies to push agendas/reactions from other factions, betrayal of close companions if it furthered the evil agenda and so on.
The tipping point is empathy, and I guess that's always the case. A whole lot of what psychopaths do is entirely "reasonable". Cruelty can be demanded in the name of logic and reason. Serial killers often have a keen logical mind, and in their opinion, of course they act "totally reasonable". It's the compassion that they lack. Intended cruelty is the pinnacle of what we perceive as "evil". But the psychopath has been done to death already (and I'm not just saying that because I binged three seasons of "Hannibal" just last week ;) ). A complex villain isn't a "truly evil" villain.

It's the framework of binary choices that forces the binary distinction between good and evil on games, and it's the wish to create a truly, unconditionally hateworthy adversary for the player to fight against that leads to one-dimensional over the top villains. Both paradigms, extremely difficult to break out of.
Post edited May 10, 2018 by Vainamoinen
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mintee: i never thought about that, providing more backstory and reasoning to an evil char would elicit empathetic feelings from player; reducing the shock value evil feel. on the other hand it could be epic if done right, building an evil char who does its actions from their point of view which is totally reasonable but from the majority of people would be seen as diabolical, ex. genocide of enemies, sacrificing allies to push agendas/reactions from other factions, betrayal of close companions if it furthered the evil agenda and so on.
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Vainamoinen: The tipping point is empathy, and I guess that's always the case. A whole lot of what psychopaths do is entirely "reasonable". Cruelty can be demanded in the name of logic and reason. Serial killers often have a keen logical mind, and in their opinion, of course they act "totally reasonable". It's the compassion that they lack. Intended cruelty is the pinnacle of what we perceive as "evil". But the psychopath has been done to death already (and I'm not just saying that because I binged three seasons of "Hannibal" just last week ;) ). A complex villain isn't a "truly evil" villain.

It's the framework of binary choices that forces the binary distinction between good and evil on games, and it's the wish to create a truly, unconditionally hateworthy adversary for the player to fight against that leads to one-dimensional over the top villains. Both paradigms, extremely difficult to break out of.
funny that, i recently binged hannibal too, lol couldnt make it to season 2? not due to it being bad but the tension was getting to me, how he was being set up etc, will try it again after i chill out a bit with some monk reruns, im light weight wuss

yes, i agree our conversation could apply to the heroic chars as well, always eager to help out rude, lazy arse npcs that never really appreciate your efforts.
Another one: The combination of the following:
* Some event that interrupts the music (for example, the sound of obtaining an item, or the start of a random encounter, or something like the P-Switch in Super Mario World)
* When the musical interruption finishes, the music starts over

The result is that, in typical gameplay, one never gets to hear the whole music track.
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zimou13: *snip*
Folks, please hit the Report as Spammer for this poster. Not sure why they still have access.

edit: Didn't we have a Report Spammer Bot thread as well?.....

reedit: Found it. It's been closed.
Post edited May 13, 2018 by drmike
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dtgreene: The result is that, in typical gameplay, one never gets to hear the whole music track.
Ha... menu music too.

Start game > skip, skip, skip -> [menu] (music starts playing) -> load game!

But another day:

Start game > skip, ski... oh noes wife wants something/kids are fighting/phone rings....


Coming back... hey what's that awesome music I never heard before? Oh! The main menu...

(Dying Light is an example).
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dtgreene: The result is that, in typical gameplay, one never gets to hear the whole music track.
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toxicTom: Ha... menu music too.

Start game > skip, skip, skip -> [menu] (music starts playing) -> load game!

But another day:

Start game > skip, ski... oh noes wife wants something/kids are fighting/phone rings....

Coming back... hey what's that awesome music I never heard before? Oh! The main menu...

(Dying Light is an example).
Speaking of menu music, how about this music track?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCxN9ZRYgo8

(This music track is actually unused in this particular version of the game, but in some other versions, it would play when you open the menu, and in at least the NES version (don't remember if GBA was like this or not), the area music would start over when you leave.)
I thought of another one:

* Requiring you to keep track of ammunition, when it is not balanced as a limiting factor.

I see this problem in many games, including TES games (except Arena) and the Infinity Engine games. It makes me not want to use ranged weapons in those games.

There's also a similar issue with weapon durability; unless it's used as a balancing factor in the game design, it should not be included, as it just creates busywork. It also leads to players (like me) not using weapons and just using unarmed attacks or spells.

Now durability and ammunition *can* be used as a balancing factor, but to work, attacks that are subject to such mechanics must either be the only options, or must be significantly more effective and/or practical than those that aren't. Also, the durability needs to be something that could be an issue in the short/medium term, or else repairing or replacing such weapons before they break becomes too easy.
Escort missions. Unskippable intros that don't even load the game in the background. Releasing a game without achievements, especially if the Steam version has them.
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dtgreene: * Requiring you to keep track of ammunition, when it is not balanced as a limiting factor.

I see this problem in many games, including TES games (except Arena) and the Infinity Engine games. It makes me not want to use ranged weapons in those games.
Not sure I follow you. I've played through Oblivion and Skyrim as "sneak/bowman" character (=sniper) and the choice of arrows for enemies is actually pretty meaningful. Will you choose the "cheap" ones which don't do that much damage, but are available in abundance (often in loot) or will you use rare Ebony or Glass arrows which have a hefty impact but are pretty hard to replace (if you can't pick them up after the fight).
That's even more true in BG where you really can't get your ammo back. Use those 4 acid arrows in a tougher fight, or save them for later?
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dtgreene: * Requiring you to keep track of ammunition, when it is not balanced as a limiting factor.

I see this problem in many games, including TES games (except Arena) and the Infinity Engine games. It makes me not want to use ranged weapons in those games.
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toxicTom: Not sure I follow you. I've played through Oblivion and Skyrim as "sneak/bowman" character (=sniper) and the choice of arrows for enemies is actually pretty meaningful. Will you choose the "cheap" ones which don't do that much damage, but are available in abundance (often in loot) or will you use rare Ebony or Glass arrows which have a hefty impact but are pretty hard to replace (if you can't pick them up after the fight).
That's even more true in BG where you really can't get your ammo back. Use those 4 acid arrows in a tougher fight, or save them for later?
The problem is that, when it comes to the more common types of arrows, they're so common that their availablity does not work as a limiting factor, and having to keep track of them makes inventory management much more of a pain than it should be. It wouldn't be so bad if one of the following were true:
1. Inventory space had no limiting factor. This would mean removing any limits on inventory capacity or weight, and would only work if common arrows were really common (as in, enemies would constantly drop them) and not capped at 99.
2. Common ammunition were removed from the game; instead, the game would let you shoot even if you had no arrows equipped.

We could still have rare arrows that are limited in supply, but they need to be powerful enough to warrant the use of a limited resource; a measly 5% hit bonus and 1 extra point of damage, for example, does not.

I note that, in Oblivion, you can easily use magic, which regenerates on its own, for ranged attacks, instead of having to use bows, whose arrows do not regenerate on their own.

I could also point out that Ultima 5, 6, and I believe 7 have this issue as well; in U5 I end up giving everyone magic axes (and before that, slings) since they don't have ammo limitations, while in U6 I tend to use boomerangs a lot. The games in question (at least U5 and U6) don't even have any special arrows that would make ammo management have any benefit.

Incidentally, I also have this problem with reagents in Ultima games (starting with 4); the need for reagents made certain spells (Missile and Open in U4) useless, for example.

There's also an issue with consumables in other games as well; any consumable should either be easy to get or significantly stronger than anything that is easy to get. For example, in Final Fantasy 4 and 6, X-Potions are rarer than they should be; they really should be buyable (especially in FF4 where you can buy Elixirs, which are more powerful). In FF2, consumables are way too expensive, particularly when you have to equip them in advance and your inventory has something like only 31 slots, way too many of which are permanently taken up by quest items.