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capricorn1971ad: exactly, law is founded on Torah historically, and when the "law" separates from it's origins it makes itself illegitimate.
it is literally law through lawlessness. there is no justice without truth, only oppression and tyranny.
Nope. Law has existed independently of the Torah and its derivatives.

In particular:
Egypt had laws back in 3000 BCE, and there were laws in ancient Sumeria, Babylon, Greece, India, and China.

For details, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history

I also note that, of the ten commandments, several of them are not codified in secular law, as they have no place in a secular legal system (the very first one is one of these), several are things that would be found in any sane legal system (like forbidding murder), and at least one is rather questionable (respecting one's elders can be a problem if said elders don't deserve that respect).

Edit: Even the questionable law about respecting one's elders has shown up independently, in ancient Chinese law.
Post edited January 21, 2017 by dtgreene
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capricorn1971ad: exactly, law is founded on Torah historically, and when the "law" separates from it's origins it makes itself illegitimate.
it is literally law through lawlessness. there is no justice without truth, only oppression and tyranny.
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dtgreene: Nope. Law has existed independently of the Torah and its derivatives.

In particular:
Egypt had laws back in 3000 BCE, and there were laws in ancient Sumeria, Babylon, Greece, India, and China.

For details, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history

I also note that, of the ten commandments, several of them are not codified in secular law, as they have no place in a secular legal system (the very first one is one of these), several are things that would be found in any sane legal system (like forbidding murder), and at least one is rather questionable (respecting one's elders can be a problem if said elders don't deserve that respect).

Edit: Even the questionable law about respecting one's elders has shown up independently, in ancient Chinese law.
I have to agree...I don't understand how some religious people seem to regard the ten Commandments as the source of all morality and law, totally ahistorical perspective. Murder and theft is prohibited in most communities that have reached a certain level of complexity, and all the commandments relating to worshipping God should be irrelevant in a modern, secular system of law.
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morolf: But Trump certainly comes across as pretty vulgar, and having never held political office he's unqualified to be president like no previous president was.
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yogsloth: Please allow me to introduce you to Ulysses S. Grant.
I don't think that's really comparable, Grant may not have held political office before becoming president but he was a major general in the civil war, and that included a lot of experience with dealing with politicians, leadership under difficult conditions etc. He was an accomplished public servant. Similiarly with Eisenhower. Trump has spent his entire life caring only about his own financial interests. He may still become a decent president, but his qualifications for the office are pretty weak compared to any predecessor I can think of.
Post edited January 21, 2017 by morolf
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Yaykill123: Obama had 2 million protesters. Seems like Trump has a lot less.
Where did you get those two million from? From what I heard, there were very few protestors when Obama got inaugurated. Today's protest marches against Trump actually seem to dwarf the number of people who marched in support of him the day before.
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Erpy: Where did you get those two million from? From what I heard, there were very few protestors when Obama got inaugurated. Today's protest marches against Trump actually seem to dwarf the number of people who marched in support of him the day before.
I'm not sure if there was ever that many when he got inaugurated... but there have defiantly been large protest against him and his polices. For example there was over a million people who protested again Obamacare in 09.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1213056/Up-million-march-US-Capitol-protest-Obamas-spending-tea-party-demonstration.html

There was also a lot more people during Trumps inauguration than what some of the MSM is showing... based on what I've seen he got what was in-line with past Republicans, maybe even better based on the numbers.

https://i.imgur.com/NGbN3MH.jpg
Post edited January 22, 2017 by user deleted
Has WWIII started yet?
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richlind33: Has WWIII started yet?
Ball's in Putin's corner. We're still sleeping off the party hangover.
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richlind33: Has WWIII started yet?
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Emob78: Ball's in Putin's corner. We're still sleeping off the party hangover.
You know your politicians are shit when someone like Putin starts to look good. o.O
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Emob78: Ball's in Putin's corner. We're still sleeping off the party hangover.
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richlind33: You know your politicians are shit when someone like Putin starts to look good. o.O
ALL politicians are shit. Rather sad forgotten fact of the modern age.
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richlind33: You know your politicians are shit when someone like Putin starts to look good. o.O
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Emob78: ALL politicians are shit. Rather sad forgotten fact of the modern age.
We the people aren't very far behind.
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Emob78: ALL politicians are shit. Rather sad forgotten fact of the modern age.
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richlind33: We the people aren't very far behind.
We have to settle for being the underpaid shovelers of shit.
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Emob78: We have to settle for being the underpaid shovelers of shit.
Not me, I'm an artisan.

I'm a creator of shit.
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Emob78: ALL politicians are shit. Rather sad forgotten fact of the modern age.
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richlind33: We the people aren't very far behind.
it's only because of "we the people" people like you. there's nothing wrong with Donald Trump he's like a jesus in this world. i hope he'll last long
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capricorn1971ad: exactly, law is founded on Torah historically, and when the "law" separates from it's origins it makes itself illegitimate.
it is literally law through lawlessness. there is no justice without truth, only oppression and tyranny.
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dtgreene: Nope. Law has existed independently of the Torah and its derivatives.

In particular:
Egypt had laws back in 3000 BCE, and there were laws in ancient Sumeria, Babylon, Greece, India, and China.

For details, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history

I also note that, of the ten commandments, several of them are not codified in secular law, as they have no place in a secular legal system (the very first one is one of these), several are things that would be found in any sane legal system (like forbidding murder), and at least one is rather questionable (respecting one's elders can be a problem if said elders don't deserve that respect).

Edit: Even the questionable law about respecting one's elders has shown up independently, in ancient Chinese law.
say what you will, but that is all "law" based off of a lie, and THAT is the difference.

Pharoah was a usurper.. (Rikayon)
he was not the legitimate ruler of Egypt actually.
the "LAW" you are describing is not "LAW" it is "LAWLESSNESS".

the first law is from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi

lie to yourself all you wan't, but doesn't mean we all beleive you, some of us know better.
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I must have gotten hold of some bad acid, I could have sworn I just saw someone compare Don to Jesus Christ.