I am saying that's what a whole lot of people incorrectly assume – which kind of fuels the debate. I mean, that Sommers person even spells out that insinuation ("they want the male video game culture to die"). Critics of Sarkeesian's videos are sometimes asking for a different kind of argumentation, one that works with "counter examples", "constructive criticism" or "suggestions for another approach". Yet counter examples are limited as a framework to place misogynist transgressions (and of course totally useless in 'proving' a lack of sexist motives in video games); constructive criticism is not applicable if you're focusing on things you'd consider inherently bad (like most of the stuff in the background decoration videos); and suggestions will always be read as commands.

And Sarkeesian has never been careful enough about that stuff, so, yeah, I'd rather she would take a purely scientific stance. The last part of the latest video I already found dangerously close to suggesting... well, run of the mill alternate society creations which have achieved the fullest equality of the sexes. Which rather ignores the problem in our society than to address it - which would be what art might actually achieve.

USE SEXISM AND FEMINISM TO MAKE MONEY? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT YOU MYSOGINIST M....N??

Ups...

"But despite the site’s claim to be defending the honour of suffering “ladies”, the website Business Insider claims that Rantic.com itself does not exist, and is instead the work of a group of internet hoaxers called SocialVevo, whose motive is to capitalise on internet trends to gain page views."

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/sep/24/threat-post-naked-photographs-emma-watson-hoax-4chan

Frankly speaking, I still see so many economical interests in all this... "feminist frequency things"...(To name one of the formal protagonist of this thread) and is SAD, the Emma Thomson message was good and neccesary, more in the United Nations, a place were some represented countries have a really poor value about female gender. Now, the message is tainted.

From the comments I have seen, she'd probably fit more with Mrs. Sommer in my view, but I admit that I haven't looked into this too much. I may have to later, another thing for the pile.

As far as feminism and groups, one thing to note is that most feminist groups don't agree either. When the Factual Feminist episode about sexism in games came out, the media was pretty quick to call her out as an 'anti-feminist', and she's in disagreement with more modern, radical feminists about their views too.

In fact, the reason that feminist is considered such a heated word is that most people that end up hearing about it tend to hear from radical feminists. It tends to taint their view on things, and I know Sommer wrote a book about that too, but I gotta run to work, not sit and talk about how different groups operate.

In a practical sense, feminists haven't existed in the US as a viable movement for at least 30 years. Even women like Steinem are sufficiently out of touch with modern reality that they fall for BS ideas like the gender gap. There isn't a gender gap for pay in the US, or at least none of the studies that get cited support the notion.

Every once in a while I'll run into an actual feminist, as in believes in bi-directional equality, but by and large they tend to be so ignorant of what it's like to be a man in modern America, that it undermines any argument they might have for more rights as they're already in a pretty cushy position over all.

I'm not really surprised that feminists would freak out over what the Factual Feminist said, it's rare to hear feminists that actually go out and do some research before commencing the male bashing.

Nothing new under the bridge. For as long as I want to understand some people, I came to the conclusion that feminists, as cheap contracultural leftists and other people that support them, do not deserve my attention at all.

On this subject I'd say:
Uh, so people is saying your game is bad because you are not a guy?, last time I checked you just did a poor quality game, why don't you try harder insted of blaming your disgraces on patriarchy?, don't tell me, you cannot because "you're just a girl", uh. Don't be an hypocrat and show the world what you got or shut the fuck up.

Because that would be hard and blaming the patriarchy gets money without all that work?

Seeing what happened with the "fake company" behind the Emma Thompson issue, I couldnt agree more with you.

You want "feminist" games? Make them... give an example! change the world with your work! but NOPE, taking easy profit of peopole ideals, like this "company", and even daring to write a letter to Obama being a FAKE is much easier...

I play a LOT of games, and I play games from a lot of different genres. I've seen things that I personally consider troublesome (when a game that I otherwise love does something stupid like having chainmail bikinis despite being a serious "realistic" game, it bothers me and detracts from my enjoyment of the game).

However, Anita's criticisms are extremely superficial. She complains about a lot of things that are taken out of context or that I don't think mean what she says they mean, but so far I haven't seen her address anything I actually care about. She speaks in generalities and never goes into the depth that would be required to actually explain why some of these tropes are detrimental to a gamer's enjoyment of a game.

That's why I think her videos are completely useless. If she did provide comparisons with other games to show how an idea is done well, then her videos might actually be worth consideration for developers to give them good ideas about interesting ways to portray female characters. But if she's not going to do that, then what's the point? She's just complaining about games and her videos are all negativity. There's nothing new to be learned, no interesting original ideas that she puts forth, to make the videos actually helpful in any real sense of the word.

That's why I take the cynical view that she's a very clever person who figured out how to preach to the choir and make money but that she doesn't actually care at all about making games better. And I don't even mean that as an insult to her. She figured out an easy way to make a living and I'm not going to attack her for it. However I am very disappointed that so many people in the games media promote her as an authority figure. They are the ones who should do due diligence and realize that a lot of her claims are shallow or factually wrong.

THIS

I have to agree here. It comes across as pretty irresponsible, but at the same time, she fits their narrative. But hey, more power to anyone capable of turning this around and making some cash on it. World's hard enough as it is.

I actually had a conversation with a friend about this years back, and we came out of it having to acknowledge that there are simply just ways that the male and female brain work differently. It's not necessarily a bad thing either, but it does make understanding the differences sometimes rather difficult, as much as we would rather not admit it. So I've kept a handful of stories in my head to give people an idea of what stupid shit happens.

As for Sommers, I was surprised more how she was attacked, I would have expected someone to try to make a more intellectual critique instead of just aiming for her workplace. I wasn't surprised she got attacked, what I AM surprised is that they're STILL trying to attack her and find ways of discrediting her even now.

As far as Anita's videos, I think they have the potential to be quite harmful. For anyone familiar with the games she spotlights, maybe you can agree with her some of the time, as I do, but a lot of the time it's just a disconnect. She says things about some games wildly out of context, misrepresents them or devs. And for us it's fine. It's annoying for sure, but we know better. I think women can be represented better in games, & it's disappointing where she goes off misrepresenting games when there are real things to look at. But not everyone plays games, they wont recognize a misrepresentation when Anita gives one. I think that's where girls can hurt. Because if people come out of these videos with the idea that games, devs, & gamers are all promoting horrible things... How do you think they'll react to a girl who plays games? Will they chastise her for enjoying something that degrades women. Will they attack her for supporting rape because thats all they can see out of a game. Girls don't need to deal with that crap.
I also find it very hard to relate to Anita much of the time. She's alienating. I had a lot of hope for her back during the Kickstarter, but now it's depressing. I do think it's awesome she is getting to see how a game is made first hand now. I realize Mirror's Edge players probably feel nervous with her being involved. But it might be a good experience for her, maybe she'll come around to a more accessible point of view. One could hope.

Welcome back,

There's nothing personal happening Vaina, so please relax. I'm just trying to make you confront a systemic double standard. Which is why I'll ignore all you posted after the first sentence. That's a conversation you're having with other folks, I've had with other folks, etc...

Now, clearly you took my previous post as personal attack. Yet you don't take Anita's critiques as attacks. Anita's aren't personal, of course, since she is targeting the whole gaming society. Still, your position is that she is not attacking at all, she is critiquing. Yet in my case, you just argued I am not critiquing you, I am attacking. Why the double standard?

What is the difference? Is it the effort? She worked on it x months, I just said something in some minutes? That would be a very economically marxist argument... Is it that you agree with her and disagree with me? That would be so particular... Is it about factual evidence? I can cherry pick as well as Anita if you ask me to... I noticed you seem to apply to art (literature, gaming, etc...) standards which you apparently are not willing to apply to regular speech (our postings, Anita's videos, ...). Is that it? Some elitist aesthetical domain removed from regular standards?

It all goes back to the objective / subjective thing, and perceptions of offensive intent doesn't it? You do see how it is possible for you (for gamers) to be validly offended by speech (by critique) done by me (by Anita), without there being any actual intent to attack, to go on the offensive?

I never said or insinuated you were the one advocating censorship. Anita is the one that some people see as having censoring intent. I was referring to the meta level context. Taking things personally is... kind of blinding isn't it?

Any more universal arguments? I appreciate you are still replying, but you seem to be misunderstanding me more than anything else. Hope this helps.

Damnit, I was replying to a post so that I could get the post # to one that was quoted, but instead of cancelling, I posted it instead. :/

The problem is not her pointing out things out of context. The problem is here linking it to faux-studies that claim it makes gamers sexist. All her vids basically conclude this: gamers are sexists. They play sexist games that make them even more sexist. THAT, for me, is the problem.

She alienates any gamers with half a brain because of her swooping generalisations and it works against what she's trying to achieve. Her entire attitude is one of superiority, how she knows it all so well when she clearly is not a gamer, clearly not even interested in most of these games, and is attacking them without having played them properly.

In the end, people should have ignored her and let it die - there should be a better face for girls in the games industry than someone who has manipulated the press and others into getting what she wants.

Yep, like the girls that win in video game tournaments, in one of my former social networks there was a German girl that won a medal in a quite big Unreal "Tournament" and she was way more pretty too. ;)
Those should rather know what they are talking about when they talk about the gamers scene and not some know-it-all attention whore without any insight about what she is ranting about like this silly Anita character.