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xyem: Oops, I think I worded that wrongly. I think it should have been "wouldn't have paid more than the reseller was offering it for anyway".
I know, hence the ":P"

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Avogadro6: I don't know, maybe it's just something they want to do to appease the publishers? They sure can't be expected not to do anything about it, even if it's only a symbolic gesture.
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xyem: Sure they can. In the same way they wouldn't introduce DRM, or increase the price, to appease the publishers. We've lost games from the catalogue purely because GOG refused to increase the price. I don't even recall anyone blaming GOG. We were sad to see it go, but proud that GOG stood by their principles.
But they don't want to do that anymore. This is not about principles, it's about money; Gog has made it abundantly clear that whatever values they may have had in the past are not as important as growing.

Not wanting to raise prices (I assume you're talking about Nordic) is not a principle. Several classics (Interplay) have had a price increase at some point in the past (just as some had their price decreased too) for that matter.
Nordic wanting regional prices for their catalog in a store that just allowed regional prices isn't simply a case of terminal greed either: because while they'd charge more in Europe, it's also true they'd charge less in South America and Russia. It's all relative.

Now, if we're talking principles, you either believe regional prices are bad for your customers (that was their old reasoning, wasn't it?) and refuse them, or you don't. There's no middle ground here. Saying yes for new games but no for classics (which is meaningless anyway as long as they don't tell us their definition of classic) makes no sense, because as far as principles go, they threw everything out of the window the moment they chose to adopt regional prices for the first time (emphasis on chose, and not counting TW2 obviously).
They're just trying to stand with the feet on two boats, throwing a bandaid fix here and there. Remains to be seen if the risk of alienating the old consumer base is justified by the potential gains, but that's not something that can be judged in the short term.


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xyem: Why should I bother to do the honourable thing, if GOG has stopped?
That's totally up to you to decide. If you feel so strongly about Gog's new policies, by any means, let them know in whatever way you deem appropriate. Tbh, if I were here for their principles, I would have stopped buying anything long ago. Mind you, I hate throwing the "vote with your wallet" card, it almost never works... still, it may be the one language Gog understands most at this point.


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Avogadro6:
Let's just say that if and when the client works properly, it's completely unobstrusive. Problem is, it's a bugged POS and rarely does. When I registered in 2011 it was impossible to access offline mode without an internet connection. They finally managed to fix it in... 2012 or 2013 I think? Still a pain in the ass for many other reasons though. :\
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gunsynd: I was recently threatened with a ban by a moderater.
Don't be fooled. Moderators can not ban your account, only your FORUM account. Why are you taking everything for granted? Do a bit of research.

Steam do NOT ban account, only when you do serious offense e.g Real Life Threat, included in terrorism etc. Steam only LOCKS your account from trading, gifting, activating new games or buying from stores if you commit things like fraud or scam.

If you don't believe me, ask them: https://support.steampowered.com/

Tell them if Mods can ban account as a whole or not.

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gunsynd: I agree of course you have the right to Purchase or join anything you wish.More Facts below....

A Person buys a 100 games at STEAM and gets BANNED, What happens?You lose Everything.You can't play,You have no STEAM CLIENT....

Same scenario at GOG,Tough.BUT YOU CAN STILL PLAY YOUR GAMES...

DRM Developers and Sellers treat everyone the same (as thieves) the same as Pirates,otherwise there would be no reason for DRM...

Easiest way around this lets play PIRATES...

Real Difference between STEAM and GOG is Latest Games Vs Old Games and Imprisonment or Freedom....
No one gets banned. You're very biased because you don't have enough info about Steam. See my quote before.
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xyem: Steam only works in offline mode if you switch it to it while it is online[1]. Therefore, if you don't run it in offline mode most of the time, it is effectively the same as always-on DRM as their servers suddenly becoming inaccessible (whether on your end or theirs) results in you not being able to play your games (or most of them).

EDIT: [1] according to the official documentation. Offline mode doesn't even work for me (switching to it causes Steam to exit due to not being able to connect to the Steam servers. Yeah.. not sure how that works either).

EDIT EDIT: "switching to it causes Steam to exist" hahaha, if only :(

And I'm pretty sure that style of DRM is regarded as the second worst (the worst being video of the game is streamed to you e.g. OnLive).
Delete EVERYTHING from your steam folder except steam.exe and steamapps folder. That'll settle your problem.
Post edited December 27, 2014 by zeroxxx
On the very few occasion I had to ask for after-sale service, GOG was top notch for me. Don't sure about Steam.

Something I would like to see on GOG is the ability to flag games as "not interested". If you have games on Steam or GamersGate or whatever, it would be very convenient to tag same similarly as those owned.

I don't care about movies AT ALL, it is more of a nuisance for me. I would like a preference option to restrict GOG to " Games only.

Steam forums are the worst I ever met. Many peoples turn to insults right away (I wonder how old they are ?)
For sure they are plenty of helpful and nice peoples, but all those insulting ones are really boring.
Gog Community is much better.

Other issues with Steam for me:
- I want more privacy settings control.
- Login in when there are connection or server issues is sometime a pain.
- You can't install, and have functional games on 2 computers at once. Switching to your Desktop to your laptop (for example) is not very convenient if you want to do it everyday. Especially if your connection is down. If you have 2 computer at home you cannot play local multi, without purchasing the game twice.
- I wonder what will happen the day Steam will close!
- The new recommendations system, is very poor. It recommends me all games on my wishlist for example, (hey, thank you I could have figured this out myself).
- For 2 years in a row, I found better offers for my taste during GOG winter sale than during Steam's ones. For Steam 2014 winter sale after 8 days, 2 Euros spend.
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gunsynd: I was recently threatened with a ban by a moderater.
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zeroxxx: Don't be fooled. Moderators can not ban your account, only your FORUM account. Why are you taking everything for granted? Do a bit of research.

Steam do NOT ban account, only when you do serious offense e.g Real Life Threat, included in terrorism etc. Steam only LOCKS your account from trading, gifting, activating new games or buying from stores if you commit things like fraud or scam.
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gunsynd: I agree of course you have the right to Purchase or join anything you wish.More Facts below....

A Person buys a 100 games at STEAM and gets BANNED, What happens?You lose Everything.You can't play,You have no STEAM CLIENT....

Same scenario at GOG,Tough.BUT YOU CAN STILL PLAY YOUR GAMES...

DRM Developers and Sellers treat everyone the same (as thieves) the same as Pirates,otherwise there would be no reason for DRM...

Easiest way around this lets play PIRATES...

Real Difference between STEAM and GOG is Latest Games Vs Old Games and Imprisonment or Freedom....
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zeroxxx: No one gets banned. You're very biased because you don't have enough info about Steam. See my quote before.
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xyem: Steam only works in offline mode if you switch it to it while it is online[1]. Therefore, if you don't run it in offline mode most of the time, it is effectively the same as always-on DRM as their servers suddenly becoming inaccessible (whether on your end or theirs) results in you not being able to play your games (or most of them).

EDIT: [1] according to the official documentation. Offline mode doesn't even work for me (switching to it causes Steam to exit due to not being able to connect to the Steam servers. Yeah.. not sure how that works either).

EDIT EDIT: "switching to it causes Steam to exist" hahaha, if only :(

And I'm pretty sure that style of DRM is regarded as the second worst (the worst being video of the game is streamed to you e.g. OnLive).
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zeroxxx: Delete EVERYTHING from your steam folder except steam.exe and steamapps folder. That'll settle your problem.
Biased no,ignorant maybe but that's only because I honestly do not like being under the thumb of something like Steam after paying for games and then them sitting on my shoulder watching me.Tell me if you purchased a new TV and every night the shop keeper came to your place to watch your TV what would you think?Steam is doing the same thing,the scenarios may be different but it's still the same.I know about offline playing but when I wan't to go online there seems to be a lot problems,so I stay online.
The bottom line is that people nowadays are treated like Thieves,just the same as if we were all Pirates.
That's my whole point...
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gunsynd: Biased no,ignorant maybe but that's only because I honestly do not like being under the thumb of something like Steam after paying for games and then them sitting on my shoulder watching me.Tell me if you purchased a new TV and every night the shop keeper came to your place to watch your TV what would you think?Steam is doing the same thing,the scenarios may be different but it's still the same.I know about offline playing but when I wan't to go online there seems to be a lot problems,so I stay online.
The bottom line is that people nowadays are treated like Thieves,just the same as if we were all Pirates.
That's my whole point...
Let's make it clear.

Steam makes DRM with its API.

Steam offers it for free for developers. It is up to the Developers to decide to use it or not.

Bunch of Developers like Steam's DRM and decided to use it.

Question is, problem is with Steam or Developers?
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gunsynd: Biased no,ignorant maybe but that's only because I honestly do not like being under the thumb of something like Steam after paying for games and then them sitting on my shoulder watching me.Tell me if you purchased a new TV and every night the shop keeper came to your place to watch your TV what would you think?Steam is doing the same thing,the scenarios may be different but it's still the same.I know about offline playing but when I wan't to go online there seems to be a lot problems,so I stay online.
The bottom line is that people nowadays are treated like Thieves,just the same as if we were all Pirates.
That's my whole point...
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zeroxxx: Let's make it clear.

Steam makes DRM with its API.

Steam offers it for free for developers. It is up to the Developers to decide to use it or not.

Bunch of Developers like Steam's DRM and decided to use it.

Question is, problem is with Steam or Developers?
Kind of both, what I like about GOG is they actually stand up to this crap. If Steam DRM was the only DRM on Steam it wouldn't be so bad... but the third party DRM allowed on Steam is ridiculous.
While I think the authors should do as they wish frankly I see DRM as a failed state. It's even a worse effort than the "war on drugs". All it will do is create an arms race, of which, the DRMers will ultimately lose. It is a sad state of affairs when a country takes their only route of preventing "bad things happening" as oppressing their citizens *cough* users *cough*.

The analogy is accurate. The result will always be the same. Users lose at first. The regime completely loses and falls into failure in the end. Users, citizens, consumers, etc. They *ARE* the foundation.

Stop buying their crap and they will change or stop producing it because they fail.

There is a saying that some what escapes me at the moment but it goes akin to this, "Like sand the harder you squeeze the more it slips through your hands.".

I became one of those grains on music about fifteen years ago. Gaming about two years ago. Books, I never buy drm books and any I consider of worth I want in "dead tree format" (note Gutenberg project is great). The day you take information from my hands is the day they are dead.
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xyem: Steam only works in offline mode if you switch it to it while it is online[1]. Therefore, if you don't run it in offline mode most of the time, it is effectively the same as always-on DRM as their servers suddenly becoming inaccessible (whether on your end or theirs) results in you not being able to play your games (or most of them).

EDIT: [1] according to the official documentation. Offline mode doesn't even work for me (switching to it causes Steam to exit due to not being able to connect to the Steam servers. Yeah.. not sure how that works either).

EDIT EDIT: "switching to it causes Steam to exist" hahaha, if only :(

And I'm pretty sure that style of DRM is regarded as the second worst (the worst being video of the game is streamed to you e.g. OnLive).
This isn't true at all. I was able to disable my internet connection and switch Steam to offline. You have to have a valid login to do so, but you don't have to be currently online. After some testing, If I log off in online mode it asks me if I want to start in Offline mode if I start it up with no internet connection. So it's not like you have to have a constant connection. You're either doing something wrong or just trying to be difficult.
Post edited December 27, 2014 by paladin181
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USERNAME:zeroxxx#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:140#Q&_^Q&Q#Let's make it clear.

Steam makes DRM with its API.

Steam offers it for free for developers. It is up to the Developers to decide to use it or not.

Bunch of Developers like Steam's DRM and decided to use it.

Question is, problem is with Steam or Developers?#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:140#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Totally agree that the third party DRM is crap. It's the one thing I hate about steam. Still.. willing to put up with it, because MOST of the third party DRMs are not that bad, and the ones that were that bad have been patched out.
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xyem: Steam only works in offline mode if you switch it to it while it is online[1]. Therefore, if you don't run it in offline mode most of the time, it is effectively the same as always-on DRM as their servers suddenly becoming inaccessible (whether on your end or theirs) results in you not being able to play your games (or most of them).

EDIT: [1] according to the official documentation. Offline mode doesn't even work for me (switching to it causes Steam to exit due to not being able to connect to the Steam servers. Yeah.. not sure how that works either).

EDIT EDIT: "switching to it causes Steam to exist" hahaha, if only :(

And I'm pretty sure that style of DRM is regarded as the second worst (the worst being video of the game is streamed to you e.g. OnLive).
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paladin181: This isn't true at all. I was able to disable my internet connection and switch Steam to offline. You have to have a valid login to do so, but you don't have to be currently online. After some testing, If I log off in online mode it asks me if I want to start in Offline mode if I start it up with no internet connection. So it's not like you have to have a constant connection. You're either doing something wrong or just trying to be difficult.
To me the issue of "tinkering around" their offline/online requirements and connection frequency is it will change. This patch, that patch or this vendor, RIAA, MPAA, etc changing their requirement. At least when that happens with a single DRM vendor on a single (maybe a few) items only they break. Not your entire suite of games, movies, music, etc. Or, like this never happens, the "drm vendor" goes under and the money you gave in return for a product is, by definition in law, stolen from you.
Post edited December 27, 2014 by iamnan
It will be pretty funny when gog galaxy releases and everyone jumps over to using a client just like steam. Would love to read the opinions then.

As we have seen from posts most of the stuff on steam is just based on a particular persons ignorance and panics , If using steam was such a nightmare i am sure people would have ditched it faster than other clients like gfwl but steam keeps growing each day with newer and better features.

Lets put in some known facts as to what users misunderstand about steam

1) Account banning is not done anymore , even for the worse offense certain elements will be restricted but you will be able to play single player games and non vac games
2) Forum bans does not affect the steam account
3) offline mode works as long as you don't tinker with the steam folder , many people use software such ccleaner , privacy wipers which tend to wipe off stored credentials and hence leading to the client not going into offline mode
4)The extent of drm is not decided by steam but the developers themselves you can see that there is a thread detailing the list of steam games that can be run without the client directly
5) We should wait till we get the gog client to have a proper VS thread aka gog galaxy vs steam client thread
6) Have a look at the total number of games sold on steam vs gog , That pretty much should give a indication of how attractive steam is.
7) steam offers better account security than gog , you have the steam guard in addition to the normal login , almost most of the community features can be turned off and you can go solo into a private mode to avoid it.

My personal Likes for gog are
1) Has some good old UNIQUE that are not on steam aka gog exclusives
2) Helpful and rules free community
3) Lets face the facts here Good Old Games (Old GoG) are the one of primary reasons why we have such a sudden revival of old lost games in this age on all gaming platforms
4) They listen to their community for feedback

I could care less about the drm , i am after playing the games themselves mostly
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liquidsnakehpks: Lots of good stuff.
Thanks for typing out a reasoned post.
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USERNAME:zeroxxx#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:140#Q&_^Q&Q#Let's make it clear.

Steam makes DRM with its API.

Steam offers it for free for developers. It is up to the Developers to decide to use it or not.

Bunch of Developers like Steam's DRM and decided to use it.

Question is, problem is with Steam or Developers?#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:140#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Looks like the Developers are putting in extra safeguards..
Doesn't matter what they try to do to protect their game,it's always going to fail.
Just look how fast they cracked D.A.I.and everyone said it would never be cracked haha..
Any Developers out there give up trying to crack proof your games when all you are really doing is making it extremely hard for the Honest People.

I hope Gog can battle on,but to be honest they have to make big changes to survive.As long as they stay DRM free and so forth I'll keep buying here..
Post edited December 27, 2014 by gunsynd
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liquidsnakehpks: It will be pretty funny when gog galaxy releases and everyone jumps over to using a client just like steam. Would love to read the opinions then.
With one big exception that you missed for some reason: all the games will still be DRM-free on GOG. This is not the case on Steam. The very least, GOG offers a DRM-free installer for all the games, ie. using the client is optional at least for single-player games.

Meaning this one on your list:

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liquidsnakehpks: 4)The extent of drm is not decided by steam but the developers themselves you can see that there is a thread detailing the list of steam games that can be run without the client directly
...while on GOG, it is decided by GOG, like it should be. So if the developer wants his game to GOG store, no single-player DRM is allowed, especially 3rd party DRM. So we won't have similar whining as on Steam forums how some (Steam) games have 3rd party SecuROM with installation caps etc.

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liquidsnakehpks: I could care less about the drm , i am after playing the games themselves mostly
Ok, maybe that explains why you missed this rather big difference between GOG and Steam: the DRM. Yes, there are games on Steam that can be considered DRM-free (even though they don't come with an easy DRM-free installer), but there is no guarantee nor support for the "DRM-freeness" of any Steam game, ie. you can't demand for support or even your money back if some Steam game isn't DRM-free after all. In GOG there is that guarantee.

I also presume you don't mind the Steam games that have 3rd party DRM, like SecuROM with installation caps? After all, you just claimed you don't care about DRM. Quite many devoted Steam users seem to care, lots of whining about 3rd party DRM.
Post edited December 27, 2014 by timppu
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RadonGOG: Exactly my opinion...
...but really, not everybody can go our way. Not everyone is so resistant to temptation!
I´ve seen friends who said they´ll never register on Origin---> but than MassEffect III was announced and it crushed their principles... :(
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Lajciak: You are right, of course. There are many games I really wanted to purchase, but could not do so, because of their online-based DRM. These include, but are not limited to Dragon Age: Inquisition, Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty, Starcraft 2, Heart of the Swarm, Diablo 3, SimCity and others. Hence, I do understand that some people who dislike such DRM, but for whom the issue is not as important, might give in and purchase these games. With the new crop of DRM-free games that have recently been released or are due to be released soon, though, it is possible their temptation to buy DRM-shackled games might be reduced thanks to the availability of top notch alternatives ranging from the Witcher 3, through Pillars of Eternity, Wateland 2, Torment: Tides of Nuemera, or Beyond Divinity: Original Sin, all of which seem to show significant promise.
And you´ve totally met my point again. Sibling in the spirit and so on... :D