Same holds true for most abandonware sites as well. They keep the original game relevant, and do foster a community that will say said game is good.

It will, as long as they take the game down as soon as it's released, or as soon as the copyright holder asks them to. Remember, SSP is not a mod, it's the full game with modifications. Thus why they were asked to take it down.

Ya, but it would be good for customers if they don't have to tinker in order to have mouselook and better graphics. I am hoping that Night Dive would distribute SSP instead of vanilla System Shock, simply because that would allow more people to enjoy System Shock.

I do agree with that. And I do hope ttlg will repackage SSP to an installer that can be used with the base game, so that SSP will remain available for more people to enjoy.

Legally doesn't matter.

One of the heavy purposes of copyright, was to limit who could make 'copies', and in the age of the printing press and different presses/companies vying to print books, only one of them could get the permission by the copyright owner who then dropped some privileges and freedoms, which was fine because there was no way in order to capitalize or use them. That has heavily changed in the modern age.

Also, applying to books doesn't matter. If copyright lasts for a million years, you can still pick up a copy of the book and read it after it's been printed and in circulation. With books it was a win/win for everyone because the authors made their money, and the people got the information in the public domain (even if they couldn't make bulk copies themselves). Software is very different as it's contents are locked shut, much like the example of a car with it's engine welded shut.

And yes there is something legally as abandonware. If copyright was kept as it originally was intended (14 years) then after 14 years, something drops to public domain, and is no longer in copyright to the owner. But with companies dropping left and right, and copyright saying the businesses still own them, they won't go to public domain for 100+ years. Do you REALLY think no one will play Xixit or other games, or use software for 100 years after it's relevance just to follow the letter of the law? If no one's following the law, then there's something wrong with it.

I've heard second hand (from my mom? A friend? I can't remember) that if you had no money and no resources, that it was legal to steal to feed yourself. Mind you hopefully you'd be doing what ends up in the trash anyways... But with the sheer amount of food waste in the country, i'm not sure if that makes a difference...

The fact that people use GOG instead of other sites shows that Legally it does matter.

There isn't. There is copyrighted material, material in the public domain, and freeware. Abandonware is a description for stuff that the copyright owner doesn't care about, but it's still illegal. It's like a father offering his 16 year old son a beer, while they are in their home (which depending on state, he may be allowed to do so), or the 12 year old moving the car in the yard from one parking spot to the other. So abandonware is a "victimless crime", but still a crime. Whether someone decides to prosecute it is a different matter.

Legality and morality don't always go hand in hand. Before assuming that something is legal, do contact a lawyer. Especially in the US, law defers from state to state, if not from county to county. Beer and gun laws are the two biggest examples, not to mention the fact that because something is legal somewhere, it doesn't mean it's legal everywhere.

Wow, that's the kind of temper tantrum that would get me to boycott all their future work if they were an actual developer.

System Shock 1 is much better, in my opinion.

Better story. Better atmosphere. And people complain about the controls, but I had no problems at all.

And most importantly - it's more customizable, so you can play exactly as you want to play.
What I mean is, System Shock 2 focuses more on combat (be it using pysical weapons, or psychic mana).
But System Shock 1 gives you A LOT more choice. You can crank up the combat, it that's how you like to play.
OR, if you're like me, you can turn combat off, and focus more on story and puzzles, so it's more like an adventure game.

System Shock 2 doesn't give you that option.


Really hope System Shock 1 comes to GOG ( :

turn off combat? that's new to me. i might check it out . but then again, i hate RPGs that are overglorified graphic adventure games. i might turn off the "puzzles" though.
i wished the SDL windows port worked without SSP, and with the original dos version. are there any other decent ports of mods for the game, that don't need the SSP download?

Well, you're wrong on every single aspect there.

You want them to make their mod compatible with someone who has previously outright stolen their work let alone has told them to stop something they've had for most of the past decade with no problems*, when asked to take it down they did so immediately with just a snarky email in response, and they don't make money off it and never have- quite the reverse, since bandwidth costs money- as there aren't any ads on the site.

*and they probably will do so anyway, because they're basically nice guys.

'TTLG' is... not great at that sort of thing as an entity and where System Shock is concerned. Which sounds a bit harsh but it isn't really a proactive 'preservation' site. It's mostly been individuals and places like Strangebedfellows then Systemshock.org that have done most of the work to keep the games going and host the files, albeit the individuals who do it are largely shared with TTLG. If SSP gets repackaged it's likely to be done by someone like voodoo47 who is a supermod/ staff at SS.O, but not even a plain mod at TTLG for example.

TTLG actually did have the CD version of SS1 up for download with permission of LGS at one point, until their server melted and their bandwidth bill went through the roof; ironically you couldn't even talk about no-cds and the like there for SS2 even when Safedisk became incompatible with modern computers because IG had asked them not to.

Why do so many jerks on this forum seem to think they can call others here idiots...
Seriously, get over yourself...

They were illegally distributing System Shock along with their mod...FACT!
They did not have rights to the title and they collect donations on their site, so they are collecting revenue.

I really don't give a heck what these fanboys think is legal, what they did really wasn't.
And then they choose to be jerks about it when the legal rights holder tells them to remove the game but suggests they may create an overlay for their mods.

No, YOU have it mostly wrong...

Eh, that's not true. Legally abandonware could exist once the rights to a particular thing expire. Make no mistake, those time limits are exceptionally long and ridiculously phrased, but it can technically happen. The laws do need to be revised as to how long a license can lie dormant before it is abandoned and considered public domain. The spirit of the law was to protect content creators, not to benefit poachers to perpetually grab cash on the shoulders of others' works.

Here's a good example of copyright expiration...
http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/sherlock-holmes-case-decision-public-domain-1201346225/

I didn't call you an idiot, I said you were wrong which is completely different- and you most certainly are wrong. Of course, it's ironic that you say I called you an idiot, which I didn't, then roll out the 'fanboy' accusations in response. If it is me making emotive responses then I'm certainly not alone.

I already said they weren't distributing it legally- and you didn't mention that at all in the post I quoted. Instead you stated that they acted like they were distributing it legally. They didn't, as evidenced by them taking it down when asked to, which is the only behaviour they are legally required to do when requested. You also went on about ad revenue when they don't have any and implied they were a dodgy abandonware site. Anyone will tell you that donations seldom come close to paying the bills let alone make a profit and if you were familiar with SS.O you'd know that most of the people who actually donate are exactly the same people making the mods, for free, who already own legit copies anyway. If you assert they are making money off it the onus is- legally, since you're so concerned by that- on you to prove it.

You specifically said wrong on every single aspect. As I said get over yourself...

They are not in the right, nor are abandonware sites and frankly their mod should already have not included System Shock executables.

What they did, by providing those programs without owning the rights is called piracy. That's a fact...

I've heard all the stupid and wrong arguments before; they are just preserving the software for posterity; they are just modders; the developers abandoned the game so its okay; there's no money to be make on an old game anyway; its legal because the hardware it was designed for is obsolete.

None of that is true, but a lot of people are gullible...

And you, sir, are the one who is wrong...

I understand your logic but the term "abandonware" does not refer to IP whose copyright has legally expired, though, the term was specifically introduced to justify "unlicensed distribution" (and yes, that's a euphemism for piracy) of IP whose copyright is still intact. Note that ethically I'm okay with abandonware, just saying how it is.

Actually laws of this kind have been more about economics than rewarding artists all along, even back in the 16th century the laws were set up to support printing guilds more than creators. And creative contract work, where the creator gets paid for his work but someone else picks all the fruits of that work, is also at least centuries old. The truth is that these laws have never been as much about protecting artists as maintaining an economy based on creative work. And the truth is that the latter is basically more beneficial to society than the former, no matter how much all that modern open source hippie culture likes to pretend that that's not the case.