It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionSupraland delisting(106 posts)(106 posts)
(106 posts)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
This is my favourite topic
Posted June 10, 2020
avatar
Valdasaar: I'm sorry for the developer
For me, the question arises how seriously you can still take hand-picked game selection when you see which * works * appear on GoG.

This is not going to be GoG bashing, it has been getting more and more difficult for me to see only the positive things about GoG lately.
With some of the titles hard-passed on by GoG in the past getting a release after all things are looking up a bit though. It's not getting better quite at the pace one would wish it would, but VERY SLOW improvement is still better than no improvement at all.
Posted June 10, 2020
high rated
avatar
hollunder: This has a simple explanation, Steam does not allow developers to advertise other stores besides Steam.
If this actually is the case (and I doubt it) at least one developer I know in person has broken this rule. I guess I will ask him about it since you made me curious.
avatar
Ganni1987: There must be something wrong with the dev's workflow. He says it's a lot of effort to maintain it on GOG and tbh I find it quite fishy, the game doesn't get as many frequent updates as some other games do so it's not like he has to release newer patches as much.
Agreed. Once again I'd like to recommend the game Orphan and Brandon, who is basically a one person "team" and when his game got released he updated it on GOG and Steam nearly every day (bugfixes but also new features), replied to all questions (regarding gameplay and bugs - he even offered some useful hints on how to beat certain enemys) on GOG and the Steam forum, posted changelogs on GOG and Steam forum and even replied to questions on GOG and Steam forum. I was rerally surprised how much love he gave to the GOG community as well, so I decided to ask him, how he manages to do this and this was his reply:

https://www.gog.com/forum/orphan/patch_notes_1020/post3

Really, such guys need to get supported :)
Post edited June 10, 2020 by MarkoH01
Posted June 10, 2020
avatar
Loger13: Soviet KGB, USA's CIA, Israeli MOSSAD, the Chinese (which no one knows the name of, except the Chinese themselves) and Polish GOG are the most secretive intelligence services. And that would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
Unfortunately I'll have to agree to this. I never understood why GOG is so extremely secretive with ... well basically everything. They are bad at communicating, we all know this, but they also in most cases don't answer many questions. Not even know, when a game is delisted, they tell us WHY it has been delisted (okay, we all can assume what happened here but that's not the point). Some things need to be kept under wraps because of legal reasons and such ... but GOG often imo is TOO careful - or maybe even paranoid in this regard.
Posted June 10, 2020
avatar
Loger13: Soviet KGB, USA's CIA, Israeli MOSSAD, the Chinese (which no one knows the name of, except the Chinese themselves) and Polish GOG are the most secretive intelligence services. And that would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
avatar
MarkoH01: Unfortunately I'll have to agree to this. I never understood why GOG is so extremely secretive with ... well basically everything. They are bad at communicating, we all know this, but they also in most cases don't answer many questions. Not even know, when a game is delisted, they tell us WHY it has been delisted (okay, we all can assume what happened here but that's not the point). Some things need to be kept under wraps because of legal reasons and such ... but GOG often imo is TOO careful - or maybe even paranoid in this regard.
And how does steam communication with its customers compare?
I'm not being ironic or anything, it's a sincere question. Since I don't have a steam account I have no idea how it works there.
I hear people complaining all the time about GOG's poor "communication skills" (and I agree 100% - GOG has some serious work to do concerning that) but I never see anyone stating that "unlike GOG, at least steam does X or Y".
Posted June 10, 2020
avatar
hollunder: This has a simple explanation, Steam does not allow developers to advertise other stores besides Steam.
avatar
MarkoH01: If this actually is the case (and I doubt it) at least one developer I know in person has broken this rule. I guess I will ask him about it since you made me curious.
avatar
Ganni1987: There must be something wrong with the dev's workflow. He says it's a lot of effort to maintain it on GOG and tbh I find it quite fishy, the game doesn't get as many frequent updates as some other games do so it's not like he has to release newer patches as much.
avatar
MarkoH01: Agreed. Once again I'd like to recommend the game Orphan and Brandon, who is basically a one person "team" and when his game got released he updated it on GOG and Steam nearly every day (bugfixes but also new features), replied to all questions (regarding gameplay and bugs - he even offered some useful hints on how to beat certain enemys) on GOG and the Steam forum, posted changelogs on GOG and Steam forum and even replied to questions on GOG and Steam forum. I was rerally surprised how much love he gave to the GOG community as well, so I decided to ask him, how he manages to do this and this was his reply:

https://www.gog.com/forum/orphan/patch_notes_1020/post3

Really, such guys need to get supported :)
I am buying this game right now thanks to this information. I insist on supporting this type of developer. What an example! In addition, I couldn't agree more with you about GOG's almost non-existent communication with its customers. They rarely answer questions, and are completely unclear about their curatorial policy, future releases, and other issues surrounding the store's ecosystem. Virtually everything we know is through speculation.

In the end, honestly, we users do much more for GOG marketing than they do themselves.
Posted June 10, 2020
avatar
Patias: I am buying this game right now thanks to this information. I insist on supporting this type of developer. What an example! In addition,
Thank you in Brandon's name. It's a great little game imo and I had much fun with it - hope you will enjoy it.
Posted June 10, 2020
avatar
karnak1: And how does steam communication with its customers compare?
I'm not being ironic or anything, it's a sincere question. Since I don't have a steam account I have no idea how it works there.
I hear people complaining all the time about GOG's poor "communication skills" (and I agree 100% - GOG has some serious work to do concerning that) but I never see anyone stating that "unlike GOG, at least steam does X or Y".
Valid question. The only "communication" I ever had with them was with their support when I tried for weeks getting my account back (which was hacked years ago) and I ended up feeling as if I was the thief. It worked in the end but I am sure this would have been easier with GOG. However the difference is not between GOG and Steam it is about GOG earlier and GOG today. GOG once DID communicate much more with the customers and they made us feel as if we are all part of one happy family and that changed drastically. That is the reason why people still complain about lack of communication - not because other stores are doing it better. If they weren't once that great people would not be so disappointed ... especially those that are long time customers.
Posted June 10, 2020
avatar
karnak1: And how does steam communication with its customers compare?
I'm not being ironic or anything, it's a sincere question. Since I don't have a steam account I have no idea how it works there.
I hear people complaining all the time about GOG's poor "communication skills" (and I agree 100% - GOG has some serious work to do concerning that) but I never see anyone stating that "unlike GOG, at least steam does X or Y".
avatar
MarkoH01: Valid question. The only "communication" I ever had with them was with their support when I tried for weeks getting my account back (which was hacked years ago) and I ended up feeling as if I was the thief. It worked in the end but I am sure this would have been easier with GOG. However the difference is not between GOG and Steam it is about GOG earlier and GOG today. GOG once DID communicate much more with the customers and they made us feel as if we are all part of one happy family and that changed drastically. That is the reason why people still complain about lack of communication - not because other stores are doing it better. If they weren't once that great people would not be so disappointed ... especially those that are long time customers.
I think you're right
The feeling of being a big family at GoG is gone.
GOG has changed but unfortunately not for the better
Post edited June 10, 2020 by Valdasaar
Posted June 10, 2020
avatar
karnak1: And how does steam communication with its customers compare?
I'm not being ironic or anything, it's a sincere question. Since I don't have a steam account I have no idea how it works there.
I hear people complaining all the time about GOG's poor "communication skills" (and I agree 100% - GOG has some serious work to do concerning that) but I never see anyone stating that "unlike GOG, at least steam does X or Y".
avatar
MarkoH01: Valid question. The only "communication" I ever had with them was with their support when I tried for weeks getting my account back (which was hacked years ago) and I ended up feeling as if I was the thief. It worked in the end but I am sure this would have been easier with GOG. However the difference is not between GOG and Steam it is about GOG earlier and GOG today. GOG once DID communicate much more with the customers and they made us feel as if we are all part of one happy family and that changed drastically. That is the reason why people still complain about lack of communication - not because other stores are doing it better. If they weren't once that great people would not be so disappointed ... especially those that are long time customers.
Thanks for the answer.
To be honest I only remember GOG's communication with its customers being quite good only during the times the "Enigmatic Monk" (I don't remember if that was his nick or not) being on board. GOG was quite small in those times so I guess the interaction between shop and customers was much easier.

From 2011/2012 onward I think things start going downhill.
I don't know the reasons why things began to decline, but I suspect that the actual times of "Angry Internet People" we're living on are much to blame. Nowadays a company can't post or do anything online without some horde of angry people yelling against it, carrying torches and pitchforks. A couple of years ago people began bashing the CP2077 trailer, accusing the game of being racist, because a gang of black jamaicans in it were calling themselves "The Animals". Fortunately for CDP, Mike Pondsmith is working directly with them.

Add to that the recent climate of terrible office relationships: speaking from personal experience, I've noticed in these last 10 years or so an incredible decline in staff communication. The CEO avoids speaking to the department manager, the manager avoids speaking to the HR, the HR avoids speaking to worker A, B or Z, etc etc... It's almost like a plague!

Still, I suspect that GOG has grown too big and too fast for its structure. And I also suspect there's probably some "inner conflicts" within the company.
But there's not much one can do, except voice our complaints and shop here to support them or shop elsewhere where one thinks better services are offered.
Posted June 10, 2020
avatar
toma85: It also shows a problem CD Projekt and GOG have. The lack of advertisement. I've just read a case where someone bought The Witcher 3 on Steam because he didn't know that GOG is part of CD Projekt (YES!). He would have preferred to buy it here on GOG because he could have supported CD Projekt. But it was too late.

GOG's main problem is that people associate PC gaming with Steam. There are many trailers, news, etc. on different gaming sites that only mention Steam although a GOG version of a game exists. They usually post links to the Steam store. I know some people who prefer buying DRM-free games, but they end up buying the Steam versions because they don't know that a GOG version exists. And this is most likely also the problem with the GOG version of Supraland.
avatar
karnak1: Personally I think all that you wrote is 100% correct.

As for the issue of GOG having less publicity and coverage than steam, without trying to enter into any "conspiracy theories", I guess it's safe to say that a heavy part of the videogame industry (mostly the AAA type) has no interest whatsoever in people knowing that there's a DRM-free market for videogames. It's more and more evident, as AAA publishers seem keen to enforce stricter DRM on its products.

The gaming press is also (on my opinion) one of the greatest culprits on this matter, since for many years they always helped to enforce the definition that "steam = pc gaming".
I still remember well how it wasn't until 2013 or 2014 that Rock, Paper, Shotgun began to acknowledge the existence of GOG. Because, for all the previous years, whenever a game was launched (on both stores) they'd only mention the steam release as if no other stores existed. Until increasing pressure from the readers forced them to finally mention the GOG store for such events.
Humble Bundle sometimes forget GOG! ex: Age of Wonder III available on both GOG and Steam, But you can only buy it from Steam through Humble! And there are others (Banished, Arcania, etc ...)
Posted June 11, 2020
avatar
karnak1: To be honest I only remember GOG's communication with its customers being quite good only during the times the "Enigmatic Monk" (I don't remember if that was his nick or not) being on board.
Enigmatic T, Trevor Longino if you want to check up on his activity after that point more easily. And yeah, with the exception of arguing against Linux support, he defined and, well, pretty much was GOG's good PR period. Probably realized that with their change of direction there will be too many fires to put out that will come down on his head.
Thinking of notable nicks from that period also brings me to SStefania, as someone seeming to thoroughly enjoy being in support and going above and beyond.
Posted June 11, 2020
avatar
karnak1: To be honest I only remember GOG's communication with its customers being quite good only during the times the "Enigmatic Monk" (I don't remember if that was his nick or not) being on board.
avatar
Cavalary: Enigmatic T, Trevor Longino if you want to check up on his activity after that point more easily. And yeah, with the exception of arguing against Linux support, he defined and, well, pretty much was GOG's good PR period. Probably realized that with their change of direction there will be too many fires to put out that will come down on his head.
Thinking of notable nicks from that period also brings me to SStefania, as someone seeming to thoroughly enjoy being in support and going above and beyond.
Thanks for reminding me of the name. I also think he called himself "The French Monk" or maybe I'm confusing things again. Still, those were some good times to be on GOG.

Just today I was thinking about this. Not trying to forgive GOG about its communication faults or anything, but it really must be hell to handle PR here. At least steam must be more straightforward... you go there because you want to buy games... Period. And you accept steam conditions or GTFO.

GOG is 12 years old already and it's still greatly divided among its customer base:
some still wish the store was only selling old classics; others want GOG to drop the client entirely; others want more and better Galaxy support; many want more achievements and steam-like features; others (like me) don't care about such things and want GOG to stay well clear of it; some want more AAA titles; other want more indies; certain people want more co-op; other people (me included) don't care about co-op games, etc etc etc...

Not easy to manage a store on such conditions, I guess.
Posted June 11, 2020
avatar
karnak1:
Not getting into that discussion again, but they'll get no understanding from me. Entirely their fault, how it went.
Posted June 11, 2020
avatar
karnak1: Thanks for reminding me of the name. I also think he called himself "The French Monk" or maybe I'm confusing things again.
The French Monk was someone else: Guillaume Rambourg I think.
Posted June 11, 2020
avatar
Swedrami: Apparently GoG is partly to blame for the comparatively low sales ratio as well:

"GoG ignored my request to release on their platform on launch. They only asked me a while after release.
(Supraland took part) in sales, yes."

Must have been around the time when curation had this turnaround and suddenly decided to re-evaluate formerly rejected submissions like Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar.
Supraland's dev should look at it a bit more rationally though - with a 3 months delay chances are that your game won't sell that many copies on GoG and that you maybe might want to lower your expectations accordingly.

Somebody else suggested to maybe put Supraland back on GoG when it's finished receiving updates/DLC and is all patched up. A sort of GOTY edition, if you will. I'd go that route if I were in the dev's place.

avatar
toma85: Surprising to read this:

"Going onto GOG I expected maybe something like 10% of Steam, but it's more like 1%. Same with releasing a Linux version. It's all worth so little for us that it's rather annoying to have to do the extra work all the time and carry that weight around. I wouldn't do it again."

from a fellow citizen. In Germany thrift is still considered to be a virtue.

Wer den Pfennig nicht ehrt, ist des Talers nicht wert. (A penny saved is a penny earned.)

1% is still more than 0%.

Lieber den Spatz in der Hand als die Taube auf dem Dach. (A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.)

I am not sure what happened to DavidM since the Unreal Tournament days but this attitude reveals that he sees GOG customers as third class citizens (-> "annoying", "I wouldn't do it again"). This unprofessional behavior has one consequence. I don't support this developer. He can release his games on itch.io, EPIC or whatever. I don't care. I won't buy it. And I frankly don't care whether Steam games can be DRM free or not. And if EPIC decides to do a Supraland or another game from this developer giveaway I won't claim it.

It also shows a problem CD Projekt and GOG have. The lack of advertisement. I've just read a case where someone bought The Witcher 3 on Steam because he didn't know that GOG is part of CD Projekt (YES!). He would have preferred to buy it here on GOG because he could have supported CD Projekt. But it was too late.

GOG's main problem is that people associate PC gaming with Steam. There are many trailers, news, etc. on different gaming sites that only mention Steam although a GOG version of a game exists. They usually post links to the Steam store. I know some people who prefer buying DRM-free games, but they end up buying the Steam versions because they don't know that a GOG version exists. And this is most likely also the problem with the GOG version of Supraland.
avatar
Swedrami: Amen.
For instance - one would think that immediately reposting @GOGcom's tweet about the RTX 2080 Ti competition on the official Cyberpunk 2077 twitter account would be a good way to bring more attention to GoG and the opportunity to directly support CD Projekt RED by pre-ordering/purchasing Cyberpunk 2077 on GoG... but what is the latest tweet on @CyberpunkGame instead? This.

It's not all bad though - the GoG-supported Escapist Indie Showcase should compensate for a couple of current and future promotional blunders and hopefully shine a big spotlight on GoG in a few days.
... oh Gog...

If I would facepalm as hard as I have the urge to my head would fall off.
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSupraland delisting(106 posts)(106 posts)
(106 posts)