I've been playing more modern RPGs with more realistic graphics like Witcher 3, Outer Worlds, and Skyrim for a while, but I'm ready to play an old-school pixel RPG. SKALD and Nox Archaist both get rated very highly, 4.7 and 4.3 respectively. I know it's a subjective question, but which one is better and why?

Here are RPGs I've completed listed in order of preference:
- Pillars of Eternity
- NeverWinter Nights 1
- Baldurs Gate 1 & 2
- Icewind Dale 1 & 2
- Oblivion
- Divinity Original Sin II
- Divinity II
- Dragon Age
- Morrowind
- Wizardry 6 and 7

I also have played, but haven't completed: Wizardry 8, Ultima I-VIIII, Neverwinter Nights 2, Tower of Time, and Skyrim. Of these I liked Skyrim the best. I also really liked Ultima VII Serpent Isle.

Hope that helps clarify what I like in an RPG. Any thoughts or feedback will be appreciated.

Also, would welcome any other suggestions for other old-school pixel RPG's

Hello craig_s_russell!

First, I want to make it clear, that I have not played "Nox Archaist", yet. And I still have not finished "SKALD: Against the Black Priory".

"Nox Archaist" is obviously closest to the original Apple II version of "Ultima V", since it was the aim of the developer to make a game like it. I actually really liked the premise. However, I can not deal with the Apple II's graphics--especially the heavy emphasis on high contrast white in combination with the so-called 'color bleeding' of pixels (especially visible on the stylized text) unfortunately gives me headaches.

With the Nox Companion app you can significantly improve readability of the text and add some quality of life features. Highly recommended if you decide to give "Nox Archaist" a chance.)

Gameplaywise, there are some annoyances which I am not so fond of, such as the scaling of experience points gained from fights--after a certain amount your experience point gain of an enemy type is reduced to 1. And despite of having enjoyed and still liking the (enhanced) DOS version of "Ultima V" (also available here on GOG.COM in a trilogy package), the combat is quite slow and becomes a test of endurance. "Nox Archaist" although having some modernization applied, still inherits the slow and cumbersome combat mechanics and a seemingly too unwieldy menu system.
Storywise, the beginning (which I watched on youtube) caught my attention. Due to my lack of first hand play experience, I do not know if the story keeps up or fizzles out. Some reviews here on GOG.COM comment on it, though.


"SKALD: Against the Black Priory" I have started twice, already. Once, the (initial) game demo which I really appreciated and enjoyed. And then the final game more recently. Currently, I have only two gripes with it:
First, the graphical style and effects make it a bit hard for me to 'read' and interpret quickly what is going on. (The original demo was easier readable.) And secondly, the story has a significantly darker tone and incorporates (cosmic) horror elements. When I started the fully released game somewhat recently, I was not in the mood for such type of a story. Furthermore, the emphasis on (dialogue) choices is an underwhelming illusion--there are only minor real consequences. The experience feels a lot more linear.
Maybe, the shorter game length is also of importance. If you struggle with finishing 70 to 100 hours long roleplaying games, then "SKALD" is a good entrance point!
What I liked most so far are the relatively large maps with hidden stuff, which allow for a lot of exploration.

If you have some nostalgia for the Apple II and the first five Ultima games, then I would suggest you try "Nox Archaist" (and its expansion "Lord of Storms"). Only be aware that it comes with the actual technical limitations of the old machine.
"SKALD: Against the Black Priory" looks and feels like an old school roleplaying experience, but it does not comply to a specific machine's technical restrictions. It features more modern gameplay sensibilities (or quality of life features) than "Nox"!


Since you also asked for other suggestions, I would like to give a shout out for my most positive surprise of recent(ish) old school computer roleplaying games: "Realms of Antiquity - The Shattered Crown"
In my oppinion, the graphics are much easier on the eyes, with a surprising readibility and diversity in color, tile usage and iconography for its low resolution. An imaginative curiosity is that the graphical representation of your character (or group) scales to the map or environment you are in. Tiny--only a few pixel--on the world map, an entire 8x8 pixels tile in the town and dungeon maps and 4x composited tiles in the menu and battle screens. ;)
Most importantly, "Realms of Antiquity" is very accessible, much quicker in gameplay pace and has a huge interesting world to explore!
You can choose to start/play as a single character or a group of up to four characters (and find playable characters to join your ranks in the game world). The overall plot is more akin to the one from the Avatar in the Ultima series, you are stranded in this strange world and are looking for a way back home. The game world opens up rather quickly and let you choose when and where to go.
The color-based magic school system and spell books of mixed content are a little bit unintuitive, and you have to equip the books to find out what spells each contains.
Other than what part(s) I played of "SKALD", "Realms of Antiquity" incorporates a lot of choices and reactivity in what you actually do. You can give a certain mayor a specific response, for instance, but then still have the freedom to act entirely differently or contrary to your chosen dialogue option!
My biggest downside would be that I currently do not have sufficient time for playing such a long roleplaying game. "Realms of Antiquity" easily clocks in around 100 hours.

Other more Dungeons & Dragons alike old school (indie) isometric roleplaying games are the ones from Spiderweb Software. You might want to give the "Avernum" or "Geneforge" classic series a chance or try their respective remakes. The Avernums are party based, while the Geneforges and Avadons are focussed on a single character (and creature summons in the case of the Geneforge games). If you prefer a more grounded scenario, there is also "Nethergate Resurrection" where you choose to play on the side of Romans or the Celts.

And finally, more akin to "Bard's Tale" or "Wizardry" games are the so-called blobber first person perspective party-based roleplaying games of the German "Realms of Arkania" series ("Die Nordlandtrilogie" in the world of "Das Schwarze Auge" (DSA)--a German tabletop roleplaying system). The originals of this trilogy are DOS games and available in a two pack of "Realms of Arkania 1 and 2" (Blade of Destiny and Star Trail) plus the third one individually as "Realms of Arkania 3" (Shadows over Riva). Part one and two reveived remakes. But I can only speak for the original DOS trilogy. These are among my favorite role playing games of all time!
In them you explore the games cities and dungeons in a first person perspective, while using an isometric top down perspective in turn-based combat. The first uses a step by step pseudo 3D, while part two and three have a crude real time 3D engine. The first and second lay a heavy focus on simulating travels and associated dangers on the world map.
The first, Blade of Destiny, is very open and non-linear, while the second and third are much more linear.
To be fair, the "Realms of Arkania" games are detailed interpretations of a tabletop roleplaying system (DSA or in English "The Dark Eye") incorporating a lot of rarely or not at all used skills/abilities or spells and have a complex character generation system which both can cause frustration!

Well, these are my thoughts and recommendations for roleplaying type of games that are less main stream (nowadays).
I hope you find something that tickles your interest.

Kind regards,
foxgog

Wow, foxgog! Thank you very much for your thorough and thoughtful response.

Geneforge and Realms of Antiquity - The Shattered Crown look great. I added them to my GOG Wishlist. My birthday is coming in March, and my wife always gets me something off my GOG Wishlist.

I'll keep SKALD and Nox Archaist on my list of games to look into sometime in the future, but based on your descriptions, I think the two I listed above are more in line with what I'm in the mood for now.

Thank you again. Very much appreciated.

A little about SKALD. It's important to remember that it released at $15, under the expected $20 for a full indie title and was made (mostly) by a sole developer, meaning that one shouldn't necessarily expect the world from it. The project would have demanded itself to be controlled in terms of size and scope, lest the budget and development time become completely unmanageable. So it's going to lack some of the depth that a studio of the size and budget that made Pillars of Eternity could muster; not without faults, but not without its charms - I didn't find it too lengthy nor too difficult.

SKALD would be a good game to consider adding to the wishlist. The more time that passes, the more patches that iron out the creases can be applied to it. Also, the modding tools where only recently released alongside a new lowest price at 40% off, so it may be propitious to consider a purchase it at this time; simply leaving it for later - if some people take it upon themselves to produce a well-constructed campaign of their own using the engine, then your money will be better spent.
If you have any specific questions about SKALD, just respond to this comment.

I would concur about about Realms of Antiquity. Not only myself, but numerous other reasonable people have praised it.

Here's a recommendation for the future, in about three or four years, all going well:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2752020/Lair_Of_The_Leviathan/
The developers would be keen on a GOG release, but it is much too early in development to take that statement seriously, so take it with a grain of salt and assume it's entirely speculative. If it interests you, return to it at the end of the year, again, all going well, as the developers wish to aim to release a demo in that time.

Worth noting that Spiderweb Software games, including the Geneforge games, have free demos available on the developer's website. Those demos play just like the full versions, except that you can't enter most areas (but will be able to enter all the early areas) and that there may be nag screens when you start and/or quit the game; most importantly, the save files are compatible (and at least one of these games actually mentions that).

Regarding SKALD, I note that the game uses a more modern growth system, where you get something like a skill point at level up and have to decide where to spend them; also the class system is strict, with character abilities being restricted by class. By contrast, Realms of Antiquity has a system where you get points to train at level up, and the class system is less strict; I believe any caster can develop any casting skill, and it's only weapons that are restricted by class. Nox Archaist has you boosting stats at level up; in practice, character builds revolve around putting every single stat point into the same stat, forming 3 meaningful classes. (The most powerful weapons and spells hard require that you do this, or you don't get access to them.)


By the way, with Geneforge (and Avernum, by the way), there's two different versions of some of the games:
* The older versions, where you can buy the entire series in a single package.
* The newer remakes, that are sold individually. These have many enhancements, and some other changes that you may or may not like.
* There are no remakes of Avernum 4-6. Geneforge 1-2 have remakes, but 3-5 do not (yet); I believe remakes of Geneforge 3-5 are planned, however.

The Queen's Wish series, whiel the most recent series Spiderweb Software has put out, oddly feels more old-school. Perhaps it's the overhead view (rather than isometric)? Or it could be the developer's conscious decision to make healing weaker (but still better than in most actually ancient WRPGs, there's ways to boost them with equipment, and there's one particular spell that, due to a bug, is a very powerful party-wide heal). It could also be the fact that you don't get full restores of any resource after battle, meaning you have to conserve your resources during a dungeon crawl.

some other things:

* As for which version of Avernum/Geneforge to get, I actually prefer the originals for Avernum, but the remakes for Geneforge.
* Nox Archaist plays like an old WRPG. It does, however, lack 1st-person dungeons, and doesn't have anything like the dungeon rooms you see in Ultima 4-5.
* Realms of Antiquity plays like an old WRPG with some JRPG sensibilities. The graphics, the way you get spells (you equip a spellbook and cast them), the icons used for some weapons and almost all spells, and the inclusion of a spell to view enemy stats feel JRPG to me. (I think the game might also fully restore you when you rest in town.)
* SKALD, from what I tried of it (didn't play past character creation), feels more modern WRPG to me.

I've played neither but I really enjoyed Caves of Lore, which I thought a bargain even at full price. What I wrote about it after finishing it in 2023:

"Biggest surprise of the year, bought in a sale on a whim, without me knowing anything about it, and I absolutely loved it. Nice retro RPG that doesn't hold your hand, very enjoyable turn-based combat with fun abilities that partially reminded me of modern tactical RPGs like Divinity: Original Sin (although the dev said he hasn't played that one yet), and with very interesting ways to level your characters. It's also made by one guy only, and he is incredibly friendly, helpful and open to feedback. Offers continuous support and fixes issues very promptly, even though it's almost a year since release now. The only downside is that the story ends on a cliffhanger, but apart from that it felt in no way like a simple "part 1" but like a full blown RPG of 20-30 hours playtime. Highly recommended! Looking forward to the sequel."

I'd definitely start with SKALD, it's a much more tight, focused and short experience, and the retro aesthetic doesn't get in the way of clarity (well, for the most part) and then depending on how you like it, move to other games

Wow - that's a jump.
Going from those three to those two.

I haven't played SKALD, yet - so I cannot compare with Nox A.
But Nox Archaist is as old-school as it gets.

Not sure, if that's the one, you want to lose your "old-school pixel RPG" virginity to.

SKALD (again: haven't played that, yet) "seems" (!) to be a little more oriented towards the "modern player".

Thanks very much for everyone's responses. Very helpful!

Based on the consistent positive feedback, I added SKALD to my GOG Wishlist. It's a very, very impressive accomplishment for one person. I do like that mod tools are in progress.

I really like the graphics on Lair of the Leviathan. Going to check YouTube and the internet for reviews. Wasn't aware of the game. Will keep an eye on it.

Geneforge looks more in line with my tastes. Avernum looks to be a little too old school. @dtgreen thanks for clarifying all the different versions of Geneforge and Avernum.

Visited Spiderweb's website. Queen's Wish series' graphics are very nice. Graphics aren't everything, but they do matter. I'll check out reviews and see if I want them on my GOG Wishlist.

Nox Archaist is probably also too old school for me. I find the very early RPGs to be a little too hard. The earlier Ultima games were too hard while the later ones were more enjoyable. So, Nox's focus on reproducing the experience of the oldest RPGs probably wouldn't be a good fit.

Added Cave of Lore to my GOG Wishlist.

@BreOl72 - Yes, it's definitely a jump from Witcher 3 to more old school pixel RPGs. I move back and forth between modern and older games all the time. Get tired of one style and switch to the other for a while. For example, when new Riven came out, I played it for a long time, haven't yet finished it. At the same time, I played Dreamfall Chapters. Again, haven't yet made it to the end. After a playing them a while, wanted a change and reinstalled Timelapse and John Saul's Blackstone Chronicles, which I'm playing right now.

Thanks again to everyone. Greatly appreciate the time you spent giving me your feedback.

Again, don't forget that you can check out the demos of these games. Download the demos, play them for a bit, then decide whether to put them on your wishlist.

Thanks! Will do.