It's exactly the same - it's something from the future that blatantly doesn't fit and was just forced there in a misguided effort to make the already beloved work more appealing to a mass audience. You can't just dump people of different ethnicity randomly here and there into a coherent fictional world and act like it changes nothing. It's blatantly fake and ruins any verisimilitude. It's also extremely lazy - for example (from what I read) the character of Baranor in Shadow of of Mordor has a sensible backstory to explain his presence in Gondor as captain of the guard (and no, I'm not implying those games are a good representation of Tolkien's world, just in that particular case the show how something can be done better).

I fundamentally disagree with the notion that the audience's race needs to be "represented" for something to be attractive to them, in fact, I find the notion rather disturbing as it implies people are unable or unwilling to empathisewith people of different skin color.

And the world Tolkien created is not supposed to reflect our modern world. It wasn't even supposed to reflect the world in which it was written. It's rooted in the past, and it's strength is the way it evokes that, and not modernity. And it has been uniformly succesfull in finding an audience throughout the decades without the need for adjustments for a "modern audience". Some writers for hire, without a fraction of Tolkien's knowledge and life exerience coming into it now and thinking they know better what Middle-Earth should be instead is preposterous, arrogant and plain idiotic.

As for what Tolkien would or would not approve of, I can't presume to speak for him, nor should anyone else, which is why the respectful thing is to adapt his works as faithfuly as possible or not at all.

I'll wait until they release the final episode of the series. Right now, like the op, I barely remember what season 1 was about and I'm not looking forward to rewatching it. The Wheel of Time season 2? I got half of the story because the series assumed I was familiar with names and things that I watched 2 years ago. Yeah, once upon a time. Besides the 2 years hiatus caused me immunity to the Rosamund n companion breakup, was I supposed to feel something?
Wake me up when those 2 and Fallout are completely done as I won't be keeping up with Amazon's snail pace. And they can't blame the virus anymore.

I don't get it. As a kid, I loved e.g. Bruce Lee movies, Revenge of the Ninja, The Last Dragon and Ninja in the Dragon's Den even though the protagonists or most of the actors were not the same ethnicity as me. The black actor (Taimak) in The Last Dragon had a very big impact on me as a kid.

I even loved Aliens and Terminator 2 even though the protagonists were not the same gender as me. Or Boondock Saints even though the coolest character in the movie, Paul Smecker, was a gay character (that was actually one of the things which made him edgy and cool).

I think Korean TV series and movies seem nowadays pretty popular also among non-Koreans, even though all the actors in them appear quite Asian?

When did it become a thing that the actors/actresses have to be the same ethnicity or even gender as you before you can empathize with them and enjoy the movie?

You do realize most of the criticism stems from the show shitting all over the lore, right? You are falling for the current mainstream defense tactic of labeling any criticism as coming from -ists and -phobes. If the show was any good, most wouldn't mind the (though decidedly forced in several places, it's an Amazon show after all) "diversity".

Also, the myth of "broader/wider/modern" audience is just that - a myth. It will basically never make up for pissing off the core fans of the thing and you end up with a tiny fraction of the supposed "broader" audience and losing the majority of your core audience. Which in 99.9% of cases will result in financial failure. Not that RoP needed any help with that with the most ridiculous budget in.. well... history. One has to wonder just WHAT did the billion dollars go into.

Sauron's wig, the budget went for Sauron's wig, or so i've heard.

From Elves to Eldar!
Sorry, I usually agree with you but this modern sensitivity a) is not universal nor really so widespread and most importantly b) is so different than that of Tolkien (or of Northern Pagans or of Medieval knights or any real subset that contributed to the people of Middle Earth) that clashes too much with the original material. The main issue is not really modernisation alone but a very loud and conspicuous, unsubtle one like this, without nuances. New added things seem to stand out too much when contrasted with the classic base of the setting

If anyone from any perspective had creative talent. They would not be riding the coat tails of those who have created something great. Neither would they feel the need to be so defensive of any critique.

No surprise, people get upset when original work gets destroyed and/or drastically changed.

example:
The Mona Lisa needs an afro and a beard. Modern! If anyone doesnt like it, well you must be a (insert agenda name).

Destruction of any creative work and defaming of critique. Pretty good image of gas lighting people.

Not any different than using a blender and tossing in artwork and getting something different than the original art, but similar to the source. Its possible to get a good result, but still pisses people off for good reason. The disgusting part is the defaming of critique.


ps; Big companies making money in this way is deliberate. As in, the gas lighting and devisive nature of arguments, creates free publicity. Why pay people to market something, when you can get the masses to hate eachother and talk about your product for free. <--rhetorical.

Perfectly said. It is total nonsense. It always was. I can empathize with a fish who is in search of his son, I can empathize with a robot left on earth to stack piles trash but a dude with the wrong skin color is a no-go?

If you consult any writing guide ever for criteria that make your characters relatable you will find that ethnicity is not among them. Neither is gender (with the possible exception of children's books for a very certain age).

Representation does not matter in storytelling. At all. It only matters if you're an activist wanting to drive social change for whatever reason, willing to sacrifice your story an the altar of your hubris.

This just in: to appeal even more to a much wider audience the majority of main characters will say things like 'rizz' and 'no cap' every few minutes, and there will be numerous references to something called skibidi latrine as well as random twerking contests.
(the above is a joke, of course, but might as well be real given the state of television nowadays)

Well said. Representation doesn't, and has never mattered, it's a nice bonus if it happens organically through the meritocratic process, but it is fundementally meaningless. Everyone who is obsessed with wanting to 'see themselves' on screen today is, or has been conditioned by, people who are raging narcissists who want all of society to change just for them.

Normal, healthy people are able to identify and empathise with any character, regardless of sex, race, origin, whatever, as long as they are well written.

Also I think it's safe to infer that Tolkien would have hated this series when to quote the man himself: "I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence." So filling his series full of 'current day-isms' goes fundementally against The Lord of the Rings, and anyone defending it on that basis is a fake fan that is doing so either as a dishonest actor, without standards, or both.

Also the 'modern audience' does not exist outside of those aforementioned narcissists.

Back when I first joined an internet forum, all we were talking about were the upcoming Lord of the Rings movies. The things we loved, yes, but also the things we really didn't. Pointy ears were a huge point of debate, elves being these hippie Vulcans too stuck up to crack a good joke. Elrond being a racist twat instead of "as kind as Summer", Gandalf's beard cut to about a sixth Maharishi style. The Balrog having wings (whatever those were for). Pippin and Gimli always being the butt of the joke while Legolas was made into a superhero, which Tolkien would have hated the royal fuck out of. Green jello ghosts, Manwë almighty we hated those. The fucking Star Wars reference during Théoden's death scene! The Wilhelm screams. Immerson breaking director cameos. Frodo telling Sam to "go home" in fricking Mordor, Phillippa and Fran must have been completely drunk when they wrote that scene. Legolas going full murder hobo on Grima, damn that was so random and irritating.

Still a great trilogy, and great people to talk about these movies with back in the day. I miss these times, back when people had read the book(s) first and knew what they were talking about. I also think we were able to enjoy things that were flawed while still being aware of the flaws.

People's brains were apparently washed empty back when Jackson launched the Hobbit, this absolute shit heap of a trilogy, the worst Tolkien adaptation that there ever was and ever will be. Most shooting days they didn't even have a script, didn't know what they were doing, and still they wanted this thing to be eleven hours long. When I think of the Hobbit movies, I think of Ian McKellen literally crying in front of a green screen, hating what he's doing. For New Zealand's actor rights, the Hobbit trilogy was a catastrophe and Jackson was there to make it happen, turn his own country into Mordor for NZ actors. Never forgiven, Pee Jay. Never.

Rings of Power Season 1 was definitly not perfect, but it was the first Middle Earth breeze I've gotten since 2003, so fuck yes I'll take it. I think it's the Star Wars situation all over again, fanatic cultural pessimists try to interpret the present instalments of a franchise as the worst possible ones, but forget what absolute shit oceans the IP had to wade through 25 years ago, conjured up by the very creator they glorify so much.

And you know what, I'm done with the cultural pessimism. This last decade had the best Blade Runner, the best Mad Max, an absolutely great Bill & Ted, the first truly great Dungeon & Dragon movie ever, some really glorious video game adaptations and some of the best and most inventive TV series I've ever seen.

A certain group of very politically active people has badmouthed the Rings of Power since the first 30 second teaser. There were a gazillion boo hoo comments just under that first glimpse, most of them, to my memory, in Russian. And for what, just because a completely irrelevant character, arc wise, is black. These people strongly reminded me of Denethor, prematurely lamenting his son's death while actively tring to kill him. They still do.

I'm looking forward to Rings of Power Season 2 and I'm hoping they're able to get rid of some of the more obvious flaws that have been pointed out to the writers by actually well meaning, knowledgeable Tolkien fans. Oh, and the stupid ads on Prime have to go, sorry.

In one week....

The Acolyte got cancelled.

Concord bombed.

Dustborn bombed.

It seems like Star Wars: Outlaws has just bombed as well.

All in ONE WEEK.

Hm.

I sense... something. Like, a common theme in all those events if you look at the big picture. As if, the Universe is trying to send a message or tell us something. Something happened last week. Something died last week, and people have not yet put everything together.

On the other end, Black Myth: Wukong - which is somewhat of the antithesis of Concord, Dustbomb and Outlaws - it just broke all kind of gaming and sales records. There is a contrast here, and it is kinda obvious.

Anyway. if Right of Power also gets canned, then the Universe will strike a combo.

P.S. Also, somewhat under the radar: Bud Lite laid off 200+ employees and closed two facilities, also happened last week. Activision-Blizzard seemed to have read the writing on the wall. It rebranded one of its department to try to stay under the radar.

I expect Season 2 to bomb as bad or worse than Season 1. Afterall it was written before Season 1 was put out, and they likely didn't change it or take consumer feedback.

Also they are breaking lore, doing their own thing which heavily doesn't follow or make the LoTR movies/books to even make sense at that point.

Just Some Guy seems well versed in comics and in Tolkien, and is level headed. Canon

That's not what I read, nor was I replying to that.
I was referring to the superficial changes, mostly about the color of someone's skin or even the sex of minor characters.
So no, I am not falling for any current mainstream notions, all my notions are my own, based on logic and reason.

Define core fans for me, because I bet I am more of a core fan than most, and I haven't been pissed off.

It's all about flexibility and adaptability, about seeing above and beyond, and keeping an open mind.

Many folk come into this with the wrong premise in mind - that it is being made for core fans, those steeped in all the lore of Middle Earth. Wrong, it is about something new and different, unique even, to appeal to a wide audience. Yes, it is riding on the coat tails of Tolkien's work, and as such is a homily. But it isn't an exact representation, especially as it is mostly based on appendices and no full story as such.

And I say all this as someone who was very bothered that the movie representations of LOTR and The Hobbit, would over-ride my own sense of things ... visuals etc. Even though I enjoyed the movies, I don't like what has been usurped in my mind. I still haven't watched Game Of Thrones, because I want to complete the novels first, and have my own interpretations of the authors work, not that of other folk working within the limitations of the visual medium.

So for me, very obvious difference is good, because then I find it easier not to confuse the two. And let's be honest, they are never going to be able to do true justice to the original work, and anything less if close enough is just going to mar it.

I can only recall one TV Series that was so good at getting everything right, and that was the Silo Series, but then they had an easier situation to work with.

I personally wanted any representation of Tolkien's work to be pure CGI, with no well known actors or landscapes. I prefer to distance myself from things of this world, versus the fantastical world created by Tolkien.

I never said anything about the narrative or setting or characters needing to reflect the modern world.

I mentioned nothing about modernity, which is irrelevant. We are talking a fantastical world of Fantasy.

What past are you actually referring to? It is certainly not the past of our world. It is a made up fantastical thing, though certainly rooted in other myths etc, that had an influence on Tolkien, along with aspects of our two world wars, etc. But it isn't about a real setting, and in any case I don't see the setting being changed in any way that speaks of modernizing.

It's all about something appealing to someone, having a feeling of inclusiveness, having a horse in the race ... something to make it easier to relate to, especially in this abundance we now have access to. I personally get overwhelmed by all that is on offer, so anything that can make something stand out from the pack, is a helpful thing when choosing what you are going to bother to engage with.

But hey, what do I know. I'm just about enjoying an entertaining story, that has some relation to lots of books I have read. It's all quite interesting really, and of course all writers like to make their own mark, especially when working within the limitations of another's work.

The stuff that really bothers me, is the stuff where they treat you like an audience of imbeciles, where characters act out of character just to further something dramatic. To promote the notion that a character is very smart, but then have them do something completely dumb, without any good or believable explanation. Stuff like that can spoil a movie or show for me, as it takes me right out of the zone. I can suspend disbelief as good as anyone, but it's got to be within the confines of the creative logic.

It seems many of you totally missed where I said it should be about substance, and not superficiality. So long as the substance is intact, what matters the rest. Just enjoy a good story on its own merits.