So I was in a discussion with some friends and family recently about who to vote for in the 2017 chancellor election and it struck me that politics have become so corrupt and so radicalised in recent years that those of us who hold centrist views have been left firmly in the lurch without a reliable candidate to elect.

Take Germany for instance. We have the SPD and CDU on the centre-left and centre-right respectively, the FDP flip-flopping all over the political spectrum just to get votes (they're ostensibly socially left-wing and economically fairly hard right), the Greens taking the hard left reserve, and the Left Party and AfD/NPD occupying the extreme left and extreme right reserves respectively.

So on the surface of things it's a fairly robust range of parties, even if the Left Party and AfD/NPD are all a democracy's worst nightmare. I'd never touch the extremes. The FDP is unelectable - they basically campaign on a floating populist platform, telling people what they want to hear while representing the interests of big business in the background. So that leaves us with the SPD and CDU. The SPD is a mess of a party that claims to adhere to the principles of a social democracy while pallying with the super-rich, and I don't think anyone has forgiven the Schröder government for its taxation insanity pre-2004. The CDU/CSU is pretty much the same, a mess of centrist and hard-right politicians, unable to achieve anything, and Merkel has proven to be a grossly ineffective chancellor.

The UK and US are facing the same dilemma by the looks of it. In the UK, the Labour Party has lurched to the left with Corbyn, the Tories have lurched to the right (and are fundamentally corrupt anyway) to regain UKIP voters, who occupy the far-right spot.

The US has Sanders on the far left, Clinton in the middle and Trump on the far right, and that basically is the simplest and most apt illustration of the problem everywhere: the left wing is well-meaning but massively naive, the centre is hopelessly corrupt, and the right wing is just evil.

All I want is an honest party that strikes a fair balance between business, healthy competition and the individual, that enforces law & order without ideologically punishing or vilifying people on the basis of their wealth, race, religion or gender. Is that too much to ask?

I guess it is.

I also consider myself a centrist but I don't agree with you on the novelty of centrism misrepresentation (or the lack of it). We seem to move from left to right since forever. Even during the WW2 we had the right wing nuts (the axis), the right wing less nuts (the Allies) and the left wing nuts (USSR). After the communist block fell we only had right wing less nuts (Republicans and countless European right and center-right parties), the disguised right wingers (US Democrats and the countless so called center-left parties in Europe).

Raises hand

Are you surprised? The principal conceit of the left is collectivism. Yet power corrupts, the information problem is known since at least Hayek, and agent-principal issues are established. Until majorities of the electorate choose individual responsibility and bottoms-up structures over the promise of centralized efficiency and security - which promise is in reality constantly undermined by the factors I mentioned... well, the promise will just not meet reality. And you despair...

I'm past despair and accept stoicism. Promising others hard work and being truthful about the tragedy of human existence does not get votes. Duh... The way you delegitimize the kind of platform I would find philosophically / politically ideal (FDP obviously - but consider I am going on your description of them) is illuminating: you call it populism right after saying they are unelectable. You square the circle by positing the populism is facade and assuming a sophisticated electorate seeing through the deception. Yet your actual thesis relies on the electorate not being sophisticated about the much more obvious facades of more extremist parties. Do you see the logical contradictions?

Promising impossible shit does get votes. Only the specific impossibility being promised is tailored to different audiences. In the Right, Left, North, South or whatever other axis you want to posit.

We are animals and rationality and humanity both are hard and take effort. Suggest you act at the local level, where you can influence those near you more effectively. Be the example you want from others. Don't give in to the fear and hatred that lead you to call people like me nazis and wishing us to get what's coming to us. Try to decentralize political power. Good luck.


PS: Also, consider a lot of the political instability derives from the economic instability. We did the opposite of what we should have in the good times, and will suffer through the bad times more than normally. But generations change, even if gradually. If you're my age, I expect as we near the end of our lifes we will be able to enjoy seeing our chilren and grandchildren benefit from better times. Carpe Diem does not promise a lot to seize, but a day is always a day. I seize the ones I can.

Its different in the UK, labour are so extreme left meat lentils from miles around are sucked in like a magnet. The tories on the other hand are so far up their own arse they have become an anatomical paradox. The others are there just to fill in the numbers. At the end of the day none of it matters, its not politicians or parties, or the populace which gets anything done, it is money and people you will never see or he's from. Like this eu in or out vote, even if everyone in uk voted out it is highly unlikely to happen, oh there will be some changes sure, make it look like the people have spoken, but underneath no. Politics is merely the pitchfork of the modern day, war or money rule.

I am currently undecided on this question.

You might want to reconsider. AfD asap!

I live in America. I'd love it if we could get some centrists into Congress, or literally anywhere, but this year not likely.

Clinton is not a centrist. She's just as much of an authoritarian dicatator-wannabe as Trump. She's simply also smarter, more experienced and prefers her career over pushing her positions.

Voting is a dilemma and has been for a long time.

There is no dilemma in recent elections. Donald.

Some may well disagree with what I am about to say and that is all fair and good.

If you do not have a reliable candidate to elect, then simply abstain. If you still want to turn up to the poll to exercise your right to vote- spoil your ballot.

If enough people who are centre minded followed this principle, very quickly majorities would crumble. You would then quickly see all parties having to work together to get anything done- politicians fear this and that is why I believe it is worth considering.

But hey it's your vote and this is just my opinion.

Ooooh, a politcs thread! That's new and surely will only result in the best of outcomes!

whoever said pissing in the wind wasn't a good idea lol

Dear Sir,

As a naval officer I abhor the implication that pissing in the wind is bad idea. When I was at school, I used to piss in the wind regularly every thirty minutes, and it never did me any harm - except for psychological maladjusunent and blurred vision.

Yours truly, Flight Lieutenant Ken Frankenstein (Mrs.)

I'm not a centrist. I'm more of an All Over The Map-ist.

I would say that it depends of political systems and periods.... In a period of stability, centrism can be seen as a good option to keep the balance of the society. But during periods of socio-economic instability, the balance is broken and people are going to elect the ones they believe will be in their interests first thus keeping or even increasing the imbalance.

Now, on political systems in themselves: To be fully effective, centrism could only exist in "clear cut" systems like US or UK. In other systems made of political coalitions, they'll always be perceived like the left/right party they got attached to. In Southern Belgium, the (originally) centrists have attached themselves some much to the left (as they always have the majority for decades) that they're seen in the public's eyes as the socialist's pets. Thus they lost all kind of relevance through the years.

OFF-TOPIC: So, what's up with the Deutsche Bank? Are they going to collapse soon?