Does anyone actually use this term as a genre? as far as i know, it was invented by Yathzee to describe the very stylish arcade action games, never seen it in actual use. the genre (as intended.... which this thread is about) will have a very specific list of games - such as DMC, Bajonetta, God of War and so on

https://store.steampowered.com/search/?sort_by=Released_DESC&tags=4777

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/05/17/spawn-point-a-guide-to-spectacle-fighters

[url=https://www.slant.co/topics/10625/~spectacle-fighters-on-ps4]https://www.slant.co/topics/10625/~spectacle-fighters-on-ps4[/url]

Three sources of its usage.
And it was coined by Yahtzee. It's very fitting I think.

Now look at entries for H'n'S.

https://store.steampowered.com/search/?sort_by=Released_DESC&tags=1646

https://culturedvultures.com/best-hack-and-slash-gameshttps://culturedvultures.com/best-hack-and-slash-games]https://culturedvultures.com/best-hack-and-slash-games[/url[/url]

Not sure what you mean by that last sentence, "the genre (as intended.... which this thread is about) will have a very specific list of games - such as DMC, Bajonetta, God of War and so on"
Did you mean Spectacle Fighter? or H'n'S? or ARPG?

https://store.steampowered.com/search/?sort_by=Released_DESC&term=ARPG

https://www.50gameslike.com/best-games-by-type/arpg

ARPG is quite undefined and once you go into console games, games like Terranigma and Secret of Mana count as Action RPGs.

After I hit about 200 games on Steam, I decided to sort them after genre. And that revealed itself to be a major pain in the ass. So many games - especially in the indie-scene - blend many genres and mechanics from established games. That it really becomes quite hard to aptly ascribe one specific genre to a specific game.
Take for example Immortal Planet: Isometric perspective, real time combat, but with a Souls-like aproach to combat. Is it an RPG like the Souls games? Is it an ARPG like Diablo? It has a very limited character growth and no branching dialogue options, so not much of an RPG. Aesthetics go towards a Diablo feel, but it lacks the looting. And the controls are designed for a gamepad and make it closer to a Twint-Stick Shooter at times. So what genre is it? Who knows, but is is in the same category as Dark Souls now in my list.

Edit: Actually, I lied. It is in the Action/H&S category... game genres, man...

I draw the line between roguelikes and roguelites in that roguelikes must be strictly turn based the way Rogue was (enemies move only when you move, no real-time time limits (turn limits are OK)).

Interestingly enough, I do not consider permadeath (or even approximate permadeath, like in a game like Shiren the Wanderer) to be a necessary condition for a game to be a roguelike.

By the way, here is an interesting exercise regarding the genre definition:
Look at the Berlin interpretation of what a roguelike is. http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation. (Yes, not everyone agress with this definition, but it will work fine for this exercise.) For each of the high value factors in the definition, ask yourself the following question:
* If a game strictly fit the definition of a roguelike, except for that particular factor, which it flagrantly violates it, is the game still a roguelike?

For me, the result is that "random environment generation" and "turn-based" are the only aspects that are strictly necessary; any other one could be omitted and I would still consider the game a roguelike.

*reads super duper nerdy arguments about game classifications* Oy vey!

Well, biologists have been trying to classify living organisms for at least centuries, and I believe they *still* find issues with their classification system.

The fact that there is a "Berlin interpretation" of "what a rogue-like is" now really gave me a pause...

That is true, but I'd still rather eat an Agaricus arvensis than an Agaricus xanthodermus, nevermind an Amanita virosa. ,)
Classifications help.

The common requirement to be called an RPG is ''has character customization that factors into the gameplay''. But it's nothing new - JRPGs are often very linear and give the player next to zero input on how the plot develops, yet the term has existed for decades. Very few RPGs allow the player to do more actual role-playing than your average action-adventure or whatever else. I'd say the average visual novel is more of an RPG than something like Diablo. Sure, in Diablo you manage stats, buy stuff, use equipment. The same could be said of many strategy games. But how much choice does the game really give you when it comes to the story and how your character interacts with others?

That's not a part of the definition I use.

Specifically, for me to consider a game an RPG, the result of an action needs to be based on the *character's* abilitty, *not* the players. In particular, this criterion means that action games can't be RPGs, as in action games the player's ability is what matters for things like hitting targets and dodging enemy attacks.

Actual role-playing, as one might call it, is not a defining aspect of computer RPGs.

I read a good post about it on another forum.
You could break down RPG's into two sort of types.

Fill-a-Role and Build-a-Role.

OP is confused. ARPG is its own genre ("Diablolike"). Action RPG (which are not "ARPG") are different. Action RPG is usually action game with level-ups, or and RPG-ish game with action-based combat.

And most of both are not "RPG".

Those saying "hack and slash"? I reserve that for the "kill thousands with combos" games more like the Koei-Warriors games. Which is close-ish to ARPG in the slaughtering foes aspect.

An RPG (Role-Playing Game) game is a type of video game that places the player in the role of a fictional character in a structured world. In RPG games, players take control of their character, develop their skills and attributes, and follow a storyline that often involves quests, battles, and solving puzzles. Players usually have the freedom to explore the game environment, interact with non-player characters, and make choices that can affect the development of the story and their characters. Examples of popular RPG games include the Final Fantasy series, The Elder Scrolls, World of Warcraft, Diablo, and Dragon Age.

Looter-games should also have their own tag.

Borderlands is mostly and basically looter-shooters and ARPG's.
Hellgate London also has melee elements (if you take on one of those classes), so that fits in the looter-ARPG game.

Of course - Sacred 1 and 2; Torchlight games; Diablo games; Silverfall Complete; Van Helsing ARPG's - those all fit in the isometric looter-ARPG arena. I usually refer to these as Diablo-likes.

To me...series & games like Gothic series, Risen series, Two Worlds series, Mars War Logs, The Technomancer - those all fit in the 3rd person open-world ARPG.

Games like DAO, BG1, BG2, NWN1, NWN2, PST, Icewind Dale games - these all fit in the CRPG arena. Specifically, those are mostly strategic-CRPG's with RTwP (Real Time with Pause).

Disco Elysium and Gamedec could fall into a CRPG/adventure hybrid genre, since they are basically are CRPG's removed combat in these for the most part and use the adventure elements of decision-making and/or puzzle-solving.

Shadowrun Trilogy, Arcanum, Fallout 1 and 2 are all CRPG's. Specifically, these are turn-based strategic-CRPG's.

Alpha Protocol, Mass Effect series - these fit in the shooter/RPG hybrid arena.

Fallout 3, 4, NV - those are open-world shooter-RPG also.

Deus Ex series, Bioshock series, System Shock series, Prey 2017, Thief series, Arx Fatalis, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, Dishonored series, Deathloop - these are all "immersive sims", in which that term fall into some kind of mixture of Shooter/Action/Stealth/RPG hybrid arena.

What's up with all those ChatGPT-like bots necroing threads lately?