I toggled there optimistically thinking I'd missed something, but that's just a results list. Yes, the one flip we have is vanilla town, but at least in our games role madness + a few vanilla aren't incompatible.

And that one flip, even if vanilla himself, was daykilled...sooooo at best that's a wash.

My point is that there doesn't seem to be anything in the available data that says strongly much less definitively that this is not a role madness game.

Curious if you'll explain why you voted "no lynch" prior to Nacho's arrival, considering I'd pointed out several times he was in danger of being mod-killed based on his last post.

Because I had to place a vote to follow the rules since I was not defending or accusing anyone when I posted. The definition of a role madness game is everyone has a power role, this is not a role madness game.

Unvote dessimu

Vote no lynch

Unvote no lynch

Vote dessimu

Dessimu, instead of addressing suspicion against you as a whole, you said that you had a trick up your sleeve that could hurt town if executed wrong and that was why we shouldn't lynch you. Can you see why I would be a bit skeptical about that?

I think Bler's role madness case is absolutely absurd, for what it's worth.

Nacho - My reference to tarot card was when I thought metal sonic was scum in that game for his interaction and reactions to me and when I posted why I thought he was scum you didn't understand it at first and told me that you thought I was being too emotional and looking at it that way. Later after I explained myself again you realized that I had a point or you realized on your own he was scum or something like that. I was feeling like this was kinda like that situation.

I'm getting cold feet on dessimu which might partly be because RW voted for him.

RW - I skimmed your post earlier so I might be forgetting something if so I'll respond later. You can call me SK all you want but it won't make it true. I'm not trying to so hard to be town, I just am. I didn't take issue with you calling me an SK. I think it's silly, both in part because I don't believe there is a day killing sk and because I'm not one. I took issue, and I thought I made it clear, with the way you suggested if dessimu was town I needed to be looked at strongly. And I took issue with it because it was completely in contradiction with your defense of yourself in the case of babark being town and your discussion on how scum behave. It didn't match up and for someone who scum hunts on contradictions I think you should at least appreciate the disconnect there and see where I am coming from. It felt to me like you were lining up your suspicion and lynch for the next day because you knew he was town.

As far as your narrative for me as the sk, I hear Tor is always looking for new submissions. I realize you don't know me but that's not even close to how I approach things as scum or how I approached it the one time I was SK. The only thing you've done by calling me that is probably make me a more attractive night kill target, but considering I rarely last that long it doesn't bother me.

The fact is that one of the tells that many mafia have in multifaction games is hunting for the other team or hunting for the sk. It's not a ludicrous thing to point out; I've seen it trip up mafia time and time again. And coupled with some of the issues with your scum hunting, it concerns me. Yes town will look for an Sk too, operative word being too because they both need to be gone, but you seem too sure it's an sk and not a vig when no one can possibly know that. However, if you are on a scum team that is smaller than you'd expect for this number of people, you might be expecting an SK, which makes your certainty there and your preoccupation with it concerning. You've written a lot of mafia theory and some of the ways of scum hunting look to be supporting a mafia agenda, which when coupled with the preoccupation I'm suspicious.

I wasn't criticizing your play or saying my way was better than yours, but this part I really just skimmed and I'm walking out the door so I wan't to cut this short, but I wasn't putting you down and I'm sorry if that's the way my suspicion of you came across.

i'll be back tonight. I want to really take a look at dessimu's posting and will read all the posts I didn't read tonight when I get back.

Seems like splitting hairs. The Gallows game was "role madness with one vanilla."

Your statement was that "either someone is lying or we have the worst luck." Neither of those conclusions are provably true at this point. As far as town!trent knows, maybe everyone other than Sushi, or everyone other than Sushi + Trent has a role.

There could be 10+ roles on the table, in which case getting two claims on the first two wagons is entirely possible and at some point even becomes more likely than not as a random result.

I do think it's interesting Nacho defended you. Certainly could be nothing, but I logged in to make the point that "If trent is scum, Nacho is definitely the next person to look at."

Why? Because scum!trent is notoriously bus-averse. Can rehash the trent/Leonard story if anyone cares.

Anyway, I think I'm officially out of both ideas and shits to give for D1. Will nonitor, but may or may not post anymore.

Oh snap. Quick, say something townie so the rest don't catch on!

Remember: One vote a day keeps the mod-kill away.

-----------

RW's dross about me trying to lynch Docbear without getting on the wagon or w/e is exactly dross. RW copying the argument about trying to start a wagon without actually voting on the wagon and trying to apply it to me is pretty absurd too. He is not a clever clogs (all you Brits, did I say that right?).

IS ANYONE DEAD YET

IS ANYONE

DEAD

I am Town because I didn't read the rules thoroughly enough to be completely sure this post follows them. Only Scum toe the line.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS DEAD

OTHER THAN THE DEAD GUY

...


99 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL

99 BOTTLES OF BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER

Okay, I don't want to appear lurky, but I don't really have anything to say.
I still haven't quite gotten an explanation as to why Dess is scummy, since he obviously isn't lurking. But he said he was, earlier, and he was forced to and chose to, and is being intentionally vague, and then complains about and considers suspicious people voting/advocating lynching him because he was lurking?

If you don't mind being lynched, perhaps you can vote for yourself, dess? :P
It might move things along, I think we're both neck and neck right now.

Either way, please don't vote for me, because reasons!

October 27, 1696 -

"Okay, enough talk! Everyone has had MORE than enough chance to say anything that they might have wanted. We've been going at this for a month!!!!!" One villager screams.

"Agreed, this is excrutiating!" Says another.

"Fuck, I love you all, and I want to kill you all right now! So, yes, let's stop talking and get this horrible deed done." Says another.

"Yah, cast your votes as you want, if you need to amend something you just said, go ahead, but keep it brief, and if you are going to say anything and vote please make it meaningful. DO NOT waste everyone's time with empty vote-changes and pointless talk, please."

They all agree. Enough talk. Now is the time for voting above all else.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it is now EVENING -

No posting is required in this stage, but, if you decide to post during this stage it MUST contain:

A correction, change, or altering to position of or any final response to any of the posts made during the Sundown stage.

A vote-status change fulfills this requirement as well, vote explanations are not needed during the Evening stage.

If you wish to make more than 1 post during the Evening stage, it must contain a vote-status change.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
votecount / vote count / vote-count / VC

5 villagers want to kill Nathaniel (Nathan) Smith [Dessimu] -- Sarah (TammyTown), Dan (Brasas), Emily (trentonlf), Adam (RWarehall), Fergus (Nachomamma8),

4 villagers want to kill Laura Jennings [babark] -- William (QuadrAlien), Emma (Ixamyakxim), Sean (Lifthrasil), Eric (yogsloth),

2 villagers want to kill Adam Johnson [RWarehall] -- Laura (babark), Craig (Bookwrym627),

1 villager wants to kill Sean O'Donnell (Sean-O!) [Lifthrasil] -- Justin (Stanari),

1 villager wants to kill William (Bill) O'Brian -- Nathan (Dessimu),

1 villager wants to kill Emily Barton [trentonlf] -- Marie (bler144),

1 villager doesn't want to kill anyone -- Claire (cristigale),

*************************************************************************************
if your vote is not where you want it to be, say so, and I'll correct the votecount

unovte dessimu
vote no lynch

just for the purposes of the sundown requirements.

To respond to the rest of RW's post:

Um did you actually claim that I have the game figured out...while i've literally said i have no clue about the game and have literally no scum reads whatsoever?? I've said that dessimu if my best choice for scum based on a few things but have absoluteley nothing figured out. I'd love to have it figured out. I don't. In my experience scum don't like to let the SK live when they think they've found one. The SK is a danger to scum and it's best to be rid of them if you're mafia.

I have a question for you. Why are you suggesting an unlimited shot vig as being impossible on day one? That looks further like you have inside information you shouldn't have and are expecting another team/sk.

You weren't pushing buttons RW, you were slinging mud that was incongruous to your previous behavior which is what makes you look so damn suspicious. You cannot in the same breath accuse me of starting a second wagon to take the pressure off (which would make me babark's partner) and then in the next breath accuse me of being the SK because of some other dilemma. It just really makes you look like trying to make me look like scum because you need to do that.

There's a reason why the one person here who knows me the most is calling me town, it's because I am and my reactions and reads and everything are just me. You can kill me tonight though if you're so convinced I'm sk.

Nacho - what do you think of desire's latest posts?

OK. I'm beginning to think that the two leading wagons are both town.

I've been obsessing that doc's call for a replacement feels too much like the a4plz situation. Problem with that, I don't think doc made any scummy moves prior to call for replacement but was starting to take heat for what other's saw as a slip. If doc was in fact the doctor, calling for a sub in that situation seems just as plausible as her doing that as scum. And, whether this is right or not, it fits more with the post she made in the admin thread (I don't think this is out--of-spirit with the game cause in previous games we would have posted that here). Babark hasn't convinced me that he is town, but in hindsight, I found his play scummy in his previous appearances (when he was town.) If I just talked myself out of voting scum, I'm OK not lynching the possible doctor Today.

While I'm thinking of it
@bler - I'm with nacho on the role madness/trent thing. I don't get it. If I'm right about doc/babark and dessi, trent is a not a bad guess for scum, but I don't see it due to the role madness comment - I think you two are splitting hares on this one.

Before I move to dessi, I also don't get the insistence that there MUST be SK based on sushi's death. Could there be one? Yes. Wouldn't surprise me, it's a fairly common role in our games. I still see day-Vig as a more likely explanation for that particular kill (and not sure if yogs took credit for it or if that was tongue-in cheek).

So dessimu - town or scum? And to answer brasas, what can we learn from his flip? None of drealmers's vote counts capture the first time barbark was at L-1.

At sundown, Dessi did not have any votes. The following people were on babark’s wagon:
Quad, RWarehall, cristigale, yogs, and Ixam

-Bler and trent joined soon after. (babark 7, L-1 the first time)
-Later that day, RWarehall moves to yogs. (babark 6)

The next day, (BTW, I’m omitting quick votes switches that result in no real change)
-Tammy places the first vote on Dessimu
-Trent and yogs switch to Dessimu
-RWarehall returns to babark (Dessimu 3, babark 5)
(In post 1209 – Drealmer’s vote count shows bler’s vote on Dessimu, I don’t see where this occurs, bler’s does not vote for Dessimu until 1224)

The following day:
-bler switches to Dessimu (4 vs 4)
-Lift leaves Stanari for babark (Dessimu 4, babark 5)
-Trent switches to babark (Dessimu 3, babark 6)
-Brasas leaves Stanari for Dessimu (Dessimu 4, babark 6)
-yogs switches to babark (Dessimu 3, babark 7)
Babark claims

Yesterday
-Trent switches to Dessi, nacho joins Dessi (Dessimu 5, babark 6)
-Bler leave desi, cristigale leaves babark (Dessimu 4, babark 5)

In the past 24 hours
-RWarehall switches to Dessi (Dessimu 5, babark 4) – the current vote count
-Dessimu: Tammy, Brasas, Trent, RWarehall, Nacho
-Babark: Quad, Ixam, Lift, yogs
(Tammy unvoted Dessi for post requirement but not valid vote.)

3 of the 4 players (Quad, Ixam and Lift) on babark’s wagon have not posted since his claim. Yogs is staying on babark.

This post is getting too long. Continued in next one. For now: Vote No Lynch

You're too late Cristi... appreciated anyway. :( So don't break the rules now and cross fingers I guess.

One positive about this D1 is that I am fairly sure I'll come out on the other side. So many juicy targets for scum which is all sorts of crap.

My "unfinished" business for this one post, and I won't post again until "tomorrow", whenever that is.

1 - since I am town reading babark I see no realistic scenario my vote moves. I expect we will get Dess's flip and proceed from there.

2 - answering Nacho 1306 - vague dude? Only thing I haven't done is actually lay the case against you in one place. Thanks I guess, you're the first leaning scum I have. Pity no one else seems to see it, but then it is a read very much based on interactions with me particularly.
I have no idea why you "tunneled" on me but almost from the start you left a sour taste, then that BS about my Stan vote, and I think it was even you commenting about how LAL operates here... You are the one with the weird attitude, because if you are town and this is blue on blue, but you think I'm scum, you're being terrible at it IMO. Basically, although I'm not even sure how to use the term properly (not my gen really) but I think you're gaslighting me all sorts of ways. You don't actually know me, but you're playing with fire. If you're scum, I'll get you somehow.

That got longish, hope it's kosher...

3 - finally, this will at least give me time to update data from recent posts on Nacho | Wyrm and finally get it out - I kinda apologize for not having done it earlier, but:
- I felt I was becoming very unhinged, so took a step back on time spent on the game
- then I prioritized keeping up to speed on the fast moving situation and engaging as many people as I felt interesting
- Nacho nor Wyrm were never real wagon contenders - unfortunately if you ask me

Lynch (or not) will occur in 12-24 hours

please check and make sure the current vote-count reflects your desired vote stance

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

votecount / vote count / vote-count / VC

5 villagers want to kill Nathaniel (Nathan) Smith [Dessimu] -- Sarah (TammyTown), Dan (Brasas), Emily (trentonlf), Adam (RWarehall), Fergus (Nachomamma8),

4 villagers want to kill Laura Jennings [babark] -- William (QuadrAlien), Emma (Ixamyakxim), Sean (Lifthrasil), Eric (yogsloth),

2 villagers want to kill Adam Johnson [RWarehall] -- Laura (babark), Craig (Bookwrym627),

1 villager wants to kill Sean O'Donnell (Sean-O!) [Lifthrasil] -- Justin (Stanari),

1 villager wants to kill William (Bill) O'Brian -- Nathan (Dessimu),

1 villager wants to kill Emily Barton [trentonlf] -- Marie (bler144),

1 villager doesn't want to kill anyone -- Claire (cristigale),

*************************************************************************************

I hate Day 1. There's no info to go on and everyone is paranoid. All scum have to do is throw a little suspicion on someone and we will over analyze it. This Day 1 is a mess. It's the end of the day and we have votes on 6 different people, SIX!!! Seems like town has no desire to work together but would rather point fingers and accuse.

I don't see this day ending in a lynch. If it does end in a lynch I have a feeling it will be a town player and the wagon will be full of people who just voted to end the day or to make sure we have a lynch making any kind of analysis almost pointless. Now we will get to start tomorrow in almost the same situation but will be down another player (unless we get lucky). It grates in me, but my vote is going to be no lynch because whatever mess we are in I feel it's headed the wrong way for town.

That means we have to hope town does have some roles that help us tonight. Now If Ix really has an investigative role that is compulsive to me that means he either has no choice in who he investigates or he stands a chance of doing something else (i.e. He was compelled to take a nap instead). Hopefully I'm wrong, but my hopes are not high with compulsive in the mix. As I'm typing this it strikes me that it could mean he's compelled to take an item of the person he investigates and they would know he was there, that would be better than what I was thinking.

We need to put our heads together instead of this chaos we have going on or town is going to lose! I'm done posting for this day unless someone asks me a specific question.

Unvote dessimu
Vote No Lynch