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General discussionMicrosoft has removed the DirectX 9 installers from their download site.(58 posts)(58 posts)
(58 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 06, 2021
this is just messed up on Microsoft's part.
Posted October 10, 2021
Question: will things like DGVoodoo, DXVK, and other DX-wrapper still make games using older DX versions work, if you don't install say DX9.0?
Posted October 10, 2021
https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=35
Posted October 11, 2021
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Orkhepaj: isnt that sha-256?
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Korell: Yes and no.

SHA-1 is a 160-bit hash.

SHA-2 comes in many varieties, but the most popular is 256-bit.
E.g. SHA-224, SHA-256, SHA-384, SHA-512.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2
When trying to update video drivers it demands i install a few patches (which changes to SHA-2 signatures) and i can't download said patches.

I'd think this is related.
Posted October 11, 2021
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kohlrak: That, and dynamic linking is one of those ideas that's really, really good in theory, but the deprecation hell we're seeing since the common adoption of java has made it almost like developing for DOS. The reason these runtimes are distributed is because, well, if you don't, you could actually run into a system that doesn't have them. Especialyl with systems like windows that don't have dependency management. Due to all this hell, i've largely abandoned C++ development and moved to C. Coding things from scratch or almost from scratch is far, far easier and more reliable than hoping to God crucial parts of my program aren't deprecated before i'm even done making it (especially if i don't develop full-time). I keep running into devs with similar opinions (minus the C). I've recently started coaching someone in C as a solution to their web-development problem (they feel they have to constantly keep learning the new technologies, so I have them learning how to make CGI bins and i'm considering making my own language like PHP, except with alot less going on since, well, really all anyone wants, it seems, is input sanitization and some common features like logins and databae management. In about an hour or two i imanaged to develop a simple proof of concept sample: takes a script in and identifies and outputs all commands while ignoring things that aren't between "<?" and ">". I thought about something like dbquery blog_entries "title","id","body" "<a href='/showblog.ks?id=$2'>$1</a><br>$3<br><br>"; to show a blog for example. The comma separated list is used to pull from a table called "blog_entries" and correspodns to the numbers in the 3rd string, which gets executed in a for-each like format.
Seems I missed this discussion when it was originally happening. (I wish the topic had been somehow marked as having this sort of discussion.)

For the web development case, for the client side, one solution is to use plain JavaScript, without using any libraries. (Of course, if what you want to do can be reasonably done with just HTML, you should do that and dispense with the JavaScript entirely.) This avoids the dependency issues entirely, and also means that the client won't need to download nearly as much code.

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MysterD: Question: will things like DGVoodoo, DXVK, and other DX-wrapper still make games using older DX versions work, if you don't install say DX9.0?
Don't know the direct answer to this question.

However, apparently with Windows 11, you can use WSLg to run Linux graphical applications, and that might make it possible to run WINE on such a system, which can be useful for games that are too old to run natively on Windows 11.

(By the way, does anyone have a rundown of the different DirectX versions, and in particular, what the difference between DirectX 6 and DirectX 7 is?)
Post edited October 11, 2021 by dtgreene
Posted October 11, 2021
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dtgreene: (By the way, does anyone have a rundown of the different DirectX versions, and in particular, what the difference between DirectX 6 and DirectX 7 is?)
I assume you mean Direct3D mostly. Wikipedia to the rescue ;).

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MysterD: Question: will things like DGVoodoo, DXVK, and other DX-wrapper still make games using older DX versions work, if you don't install say DX9.0?
As long as you select the DX11 backend, sure (for DGVoodoo).

DXVK converts D3D9, D3D10 and D3D11 to Vulkan, so it's a different beast and does not need any DirectX installation present, since it replaces its dlls. DX9 games may need some additional dlls to work in some cases though, meaning the d3d effects libraries, but worse case scenario you can use the Wine implementation there :P.

DX-wrapper might not work if it converts DDraw to D3D9.

Note that Windows 10 AFAIK comes will most of the required DX9 stuff already on it, so only older OSes are really the problem. The installer is still very relevant for retro gaming on age-apporpriate hardware.
Post edited October 11, 2021 by WinterSnowfall
Posted October 11, 2021
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dtgreene: (By the way, does anyone have a rundown of the different DirectX versions, and in particular, what the difference between DirectX 6 and DirectX 7 is?)
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WinterSnowfall: I assume you mean Direct3D mostly. Wikipedia to the rescue ;).

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MysterD: Question: will things like DGVoodoo, DXVK, and other DX-wrapper still make games using older DX versions work, if you don't install say DX9.0?
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WinterSnowfall: As long as you select the DX11 backend, sure (for DGVoodoo).

DXVK converts D3D9, D3D10 and D3D11 to Vulkan, so it's a different beast and does not need any DirectX installation present, since it replaces its dlls. DX9 games may need some additional dlls to work in some cases though, meaning the d3d effects libraries, but worse case scenario you can use the Wine implementation there :P.

DX-wrapper might not work if it converts DDraw to D3D9.

Note that Windows 10 AFAIK comes will most of the required DX9 stuff already on it, so only older OSes are really the problem. The installer is still very relevant for retro gaming on age-apporpriate hardware.
Thanks for this!

I'm used to installing DX9.0 games that come w/ say those older versions of DX, even on newer OS's as it pretty much does it on install (especially w/ games from Steam) - but it's good to know that if DX9.0 files go missing from Microsoft's site, a lot of this pretty much can be handled w/ DGVoodoo and DXVK.

I use DGVoodoo a lot, to work out some issues w/ older games on W10; works well, in many instances.

Any examples of games you know that use DDraw? Are there any DDraw wrappers to get DDraw games over working on W10?
Posted October 11, 2021
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MysterD: I use DGVoodoo a lot, to work out some issues w/ older games on W10; works well, in many instances.

Any examples of games you know that use DDraw? Are there any DDraw wrappers to get DDraw games over working on W10?
Doesn't DGVoodoo work with DDraw as well? :P It's been a while since I last used it, so I may be wrong here.

In any case, there's also cnc-ddraw and stuff like the GOG DDraw wrapper which already ships with a ton of the older DDraw games for compatibility reasons.

Blood Omen has it as well and apparently it works in Wine through the wrapper :P (otherwise it simply crashes with the Wine DDraw implementation).

As for examples, sure, there are plenty: basically anything from 1998+ to early 2000s which was not 3D accelerated most likely used DDraw (or some form of GDI, but that was more rare AFAIK).
Post edited October 11, 2021 by WinterSnowfall
Posted October 11, 2021
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MysterD: I use DGVoodoo a lot, to work out some issues w/ older games on W10; works well, in many instances.

Any examples of games you know that use DDraw? Are there any DDraw wrappers to get DDraw games over working on W10?
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WinterSnowfall: Doesn't DGVoodoo work with DDraw as well? :P It's been a while since I last used it, so I may be wrong here.

In any case, there's also cnc-ddraw and stuff like the GOG DDraw wrapper which already ships with a ton of the older DDraw games for compatibility reasons.

Blood Omen has it as well and apparently it works in Wine through the wrapper :P (otherwise it simply crashes with the Wine DDraw implementation).

As for examples, sure, there are plenty: basically anything from 1998+ to early 2000s which was not 3D accelerated most likely used DDraw (or some for of GDI, but that was more rare AFAIK).
Thanks for all of that info! I missed CNC-DDraw, so thanks for getting me hip to that. Appreciate that.

I'll have to look further into DGVoodoo, but I mainly use it for older DX-based games, when necessary.
Posted October 12, 2021
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dtgreene: (By the way, does anyone have a rundown of the different DirectX versions, and in particular, what the difference between DirectX 6 and DirectX 7 is?)
DirectX 6 brought as its main innovation the resource of environment mapped bump mapping. With this resource it is possible to create imperfections on the surface of 3D object more easily, making them more realistic.
Since the GeForce256, graphic chips started to make part of the necessary calculations for the generation of three-dimensional objects, a task that was previously exclusive of the system processor. These stages are for transformation and lightning, abbreviated as T&L. DirectX 7 was launched to recognize this feature and to transfer the stages of transformation and lightning from the system processor to the graphics chip.
Posted October 12, 2021
low rated
good , old things should be removed , they just clutter the net
Posted October 12, 2021
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Orkhepaj: good , old things should be removed , they just clutter the net
The net doesn't have a realistic limit on size.

Some people may be interested in older things, so they should be provided, although perhaps with some notice about them being old.
Posted October 12, 2021
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Orkhepaj: good , old things should be removed , they just clutter the net
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dtgreene: The net doesn't have a realistic limit on size.

Some people may be interested in older things, so they should be provided, although perhaps with some notice about them being old.
it does , every site /page makes it harder to find what are looking for
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionMicrosoft has removed the DirectX 9 installers from their download site.(58 posts)(58 posts)
(58 posts)