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rtcvb32: edit: Jones says PizzaGate is likely a diversion/honeypot
He's been peddling this huge, insensible heap of lies for weeks and now that his deeply indoctrinated viewers react like he's been implicitly telling them, suddenly he tries to disassociate himself from his lies. Look to the comments to see how his viewers react: They're not ready to believe his new lies when the old ones are so damn tasty.

It's dishonest incitement to hatred and violence. Alex Jones should be locked up, the restaurant should sue him for 115 mn. for slander at the very least, and this thread should be closed.

A man walks into a store with a shotgun to investigate a totally rubbish conspiracy theory. The only reason the police didn't shoot him immediately is that he's white. This is the America you've voted for, and it's only the beginning. Shitty white men doing shitty white men things because reasons.
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rtcvb32: edit: Jones says PizzaGate is likely a diversion/honeypot
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Vainamoinen: He's been peddling this huge, insensible heap of lies for weeks and now that his deeply indoctrinated viewers react like he's been implicitly telling them, suddenly he tries to disassociate himself from his lies. Look to the comments to see how his viewers react: They're not ready to believe his new lies when the old ones are so damn tasty.

It's dishonest incitement to hatred and violence. Alex Jones should be locked up, the restaurant should sue him for 115 mn. for slander at the very least, and this thread should be closed.

A man walks into a store with a shotgun to investigate a totally rubbish conspiracy theory. The only reason the police didn't shoot him immediately is that he's white. This is the America you've voted for, and it's only the beginning. Shitty white men doing shitty white men things because reasons.
The "intrusion" could easily be a "false flag" attack in order to divert attention away from Pizzagate by allowing Clinton News network (and other LSM) to use the recently unveiled "fake news" moniker on it. It isn't "fake news" so much as it may be "alleged but not proven" news.

Meanwhile, in Germany:

17-year-old refugee said to have killed a student in Freiburg

Migrants Sexually Attack Girls at City Hall Youth Party
QUICK QUICK CHANGE THE TOPIC TO REFUGEES

As I've said, the refugee problem is one that demonstrates your constant embarrassment, as your government is unwilling to shoulder its decades old historical responsibility. Bomb Middle East, take oil, leave Europe with the cleanup, repeat regardless of president. Every time you gloat about it, I am only reminded that you're arguing blindly from opportunist avenue with a megaphone. You don't give a flying fuck about the six digit number of rape victims in the US every single year, you don't give a flying fuck that your president-elect literally and expressly promotes sexual assault, you couldn't care less about interestingly collaborating evidence that the president-elect had an intense sexually predatory phase around the time of his last marriage, but if there's a rape in Germany and a former refugee is the culprit, wooohooo, surely that says something you can use. At least we don't have good Christian people like Daniel Holtzclaw or John Thomas Jamelske over here, eh? Didn't hear about any recent gang rapes in high schools with dozens of onlookers here too.
Post edited December 05, 2016 by Vainamoinen
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So 100,000 rapes a year in the US? Proof?

Do you know that NATO countries are bound to attack the country that attacked a NATO country? Its not like the UK or France or Germany suddenly became war crazed and decided to send soldiers of Afghanistan.

And what is the involvement of so many European countries in the Iraq War, which is the precursor to ISIS and supposedly the reason refugees exist today? As per infallible wikipedia; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War , the EU countries that took part in it were the UK and Poland. Why blame the whole of Europe?

How the fuck can someone be so vague as saying someone else ''promotes sexual assault''? What did he do? Repeal the rape provisions of the penal code? Hand out leaflets on how to immobilize people? This is just vague fear mongering.

Its already established that Trump had a ''sexually predatory'' phase around the time of his last marriage? Please specify. Do remember the term sexually predatory is used to refer to pedophiles who try to lure kids into meeting with them or try to kidnap and rape them. When did Trump do any of this?

If you're gonna make a huge post about something, at least make it so its clear as to what you're saying.
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Vainamoinen: QUICK QUICK CHANGE THE TOPIC TO REFUGEES
Well, I didn't do that - I directly addressed what you wrote.

Then, since you seem to feel free to comment on USA politics and stuff, AND your location is set to "From Germany"; I'll feel free to comment on Germany's. So I did (and will).

You having done so; then decided to play one of your old hands - that simply because Germany (and a good part of the EU) is willing to poison its own well (so to speak); that somehow the USA is also required to do so. Logic fail.

You then go one to tell me that, because there are bad apples already here, that we should feel compelled to let even more in. Logic fail.

Somehow you also "diagnose" my position on the President-elect by throwing out some hyperbole and attributing my "caring" to it. Strawman + logic fail.

Try again...
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Vainamoinen: It's dishonest incitement to hatred and violence. Alex Jones should be locked up, the restaurant should sue him for 115 mn. for slander at the very least, and this thread should be closed.
From how I understand it Alex Jones didn't start PizzaGate, others are simply putting pieces together from the FBI files (and the files have more information than just the boy/girl lover symbols), and show a number of things that we probably wouldn't have noticed before.

Did they do something? Not sure, but it's creepy. But at no point did they say 'they are scum, they did this', if he did they'd have a clip of it and he'd be sued. But then again the Mainstream seems happy to attach Jones to the KKK without any proof and using video footage unrelated when he's talking about having gotten a call from Trump thanking him for help.

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Martek: The "intrusion" could easily be a "false flag" attack in order to divert attention away from Pizzagate
How strange the post is 'low rated'. Hmmm...

Regardless exactly. While it's possible someone who is so against and incited by what he learned, he entered and left without anyone being really threatened or shot. Police have a good chance of shooting someone armed with a weapon if they think he's a threat. Simply we don't know enough, and there's more important things to look at.


When the elite are forced to accept 'consequences' they take or point to the lowest possible incursion and take the lightest slaps on the wrists they can (minimal jail-time without going to jail, misdemeanor, not referred to DOJ, etc), and try to keep you from looking at what's really important.

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Martek: AND your location is set to "From Germany"; I'll feel free to comment on Germany's. So I did (and will).
I have the sinking feeling he's not from Germany, or insists things are find while ignoring everything. I've asked him a time or two about events from news and he's happily claimed they don't exist.
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Shadowstalker16: If you're gonna make a huge post about something, at least make it so its clear as to what you're saying.
According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were 173,610 victims of rape or sexual assault, or 0.1% of the US population 12 or older in 2013. What's it going to be now, "what about 2015" or "sexual assault is not rape"?

"Afghanistan" did not attack the US of A. There wasn't a good legal (NATO) or moral reason for the war. And I do blame my government for participating.

The IS was created through a lot of different circumstances, overall as muddied as gamergate, but gained in strength particularly during George Walker Bush's Iraq war starting in 2003 (not sure what number that Iraq war had. Three? Five?), when they allied their organisation, then named differently, with Al-Quaeda. Thankfully, our gov flipped Bush the finger on that one at least.

If you don't know about Trump's trigger happy sexual misconduct, you must have been living on the moon for the entire past year. You'll be able to find comprehensive lists on the internet if only you search.


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Martek: Well, I didn't do that - I directly addressed what you wrote.
First, in order to "address what I wrote" you shat a rubbish additional conspiracy theory on an already rubbish conspiracy theory in order to preserve the first. That means that your quasi-religious conspiracy faith is so strong that you will believe absolutely anything as long as the predetermined culprit stays the same. That brings you down to the level of Alex Jones youtube video commenter conspiracy nuts. Congratulations.

Second, with the vocabulary of litigation – "alleged, but not proven" – you're trying to will a certain communicative situation into existence, one in which sociopathic slander is somehow an "allegation" worth further investigation. But in reality, this is a literal crusade and a literal witch hunt, which is never about the truth. It's about believing just about anything, and it's about killing the perceived enemy of your god. In short, stuff like "pizzagate" is a form of religious extremism.

Third, this form of religious extremism doesn't have "a few bad apples". The conspiracy nuts are the bad apples already. Sure, some just sit at home and keep their rotten apple stink to themselves. Others feel the need to unload their extremism into internet forums. And others take a gun and matters into their own hands, but to my knowledge, only in the US of A. Some bad apples stink more than others.

Fourth, right after you "addressed what I wrote", you went on a refugee tangent posting links to e.g. white supremacist website Breitbart. The links themselves do not constitute commentary. You were evidently trying to change the subject.

Fifth, about logical fallacies. The strawman is a logical fallacy already, so "strawman + logic fail" doesn't make any particular sense. "Poisoning the well" is also a logical fallacy, which you passed through the meat grinder here. You should research all of those, it's quite fascinating actually.

Sixth, yes of course the diverse Republican or Democrat governments of the US have bombed the shit out of the Middle East for several decades and are in part responsible for destabilizing the muslim world to such a degree that the radical islamism of the IS gained a foothold in a world that, actually, was on the way out of religious extremism. You may remember cheering at a similar idea when Trump said that Obama and Clinton had "created" the IS. If you're cowardly enough to steal yourself out of both the historical as well as the humanitarian responsibility, I don't see how gloating about it makes you look good in any conversation ever.

I'm reading Nujeen Mustafa's book at the moment, by the way. And frankly, if my taxes ever enable her to study physics over here, those will be taxes very well spent.
Post edited December 06, 2016 by Vainamoinen
Infowars is just a bunch of crap made by lunatics, please pay attention at 1'16''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usCDxSr3sUA

Anyone which gives this fool any credibility is a complete idiot

Alex Jones: It is not human intelligence!!!!

Me: You're right dude
Post edited December 06, 2016 by tejozaszaszas
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The normal pattern in threads such as this is for our posts to get longer and longer, blurring into huge walls of text, as we counter each other's counters. A fruitless endeavor.

To avoid that (for my part, at least), I'll pick just a few points on which to respond..

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Vainamoinen: " .. your quasi-religious conspiracy faith is so strong that you will believe absolutely anything as long as the predetermined culprit stays the same. " ..

"alleged, but not proven"
I never even said I believe that Pizzagate *is* true. Yet you appear to accuse me of exactly that. It is indeed "alleged" and not yet proven one way or the other. You are the one taking a side, without evidence. I took no side. Look in the mirror.

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Vainamoinen: Third, this form of religious extremism doesn't have "a few bad apples". <snip> And others take a gun and matters into their own hands, but to my knowledge, only in the US of A.
I'm not even sure to what you are referring there.

Because otherwise it would be hard to believe that someone as "up" on things as you would have heard about
Munich mall massacre.

Or the music festival suicide bomber.

Or the machete attack on the train.

So you must mean something different than I would think you mean by "religious extremism" (since you say it doesn't happen there - particularly with guns)...

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Vainamoinen: white supremacist website Breitbart
The old "dismiss what I don't agree with by calling racism" card (again). Breitbart is NOT a white supremacist website - that is just slander. But whatever - I agree to disagree.
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Shadowstalker16: If you're gonna make a huge post about something, at least make it so its clear as to what you're saying.
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Vainamoinen: According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were 173,610 victims of rape or sexual assault, or 0.1% of the US population 12 or older in 2013. What's it going to be now, "what about 2015" or "sexual assault is not rape"?

"Afghanistan" did not attack the US of A. There wasn't a good legal (NATO) or moral reason for the war. And I do blame my government for participating.

The IS was created through a lot of different circumstances, overall as muddied as gamergate, but gained in strength particularly during George Walker Bush's Iraq war starting in 2003 (not sure what number that Iraq war had. Three? Five?), when they allied their organisation, then named differently, with Al-Quaeda. Thankfully, our gov flipped Bush the finger on that one at least.

If you don't know about Trump's trigger happy sexual misconduct, you must have been living on the moon for the entire past year. You'll be able to find comprehensive lists on the internet if only you search.
I searched and found this : https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv14.pdf , which says it was 300,170 in 2013. Disappointing you by taking another one than one of your two options, I'm gonna say that something very important to consider is per capita or per cent likelihood to be raped. USA having a higher population will have more number of rapes but the percentage of women getting raped may be the same as other ''safer'' countries. Add to that every site seems to have its own statistics for every country : http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Rapes

They were legally bound by the treaty nonetheless. There is a moral difference between entering a contractually obligated but unjust war and entering one out of warmongering bravado. And if we're talking numbers for reparations here, Germany sent least troops out of Germany UK and France, and sent the least of the three and the USA, but somehow wants to take most refugees? Seems that either your concept of history or justice is bent.

Again, you were claiming Europe owed it to the people whose country they destabilized. Yet most of the countries taking most of the refugees had no part in the Iraq War. Then why is there an obligation? Again, Germany and Sweden and Belgium taking refugees and countries responsible are others.

EDIT : so now its down from ''sexual predator'' to ''trigger happy''? You were using terms attributed to real dangerous individuals for this man who groped women. At least try to use terms that best describe something for once instead of feeling a breeze and calling it a hurricane.

EDIT 2 : anyone else have the problem of replies not showing up / not being notified of replies? Noticed this one only after clicking on this thread. Didn't get any notification at all.
Post edited December 06, 2016 by Shadowstalker16
Info Wars and Alex Jones is probably some of the funniest stuff I've seen in a while
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Today: 5 Dec 2016 - 46 days to office
First hour - Italy NO vote. EU making EU army to occupy. Jill Stein being slammed for recounts. Mark Dice. Ford Motors - bring more plants back IF the policies are good. Call with Taiwan. Nationalism going across the EU and world. 'Competition is a sin, we have to create monopolies, we must ban competition through government sponsored combines' - John D Rockefeller. The Railroad Men. Pedophile networks and coverups coming out. PizzaGate & Investigation vs Speculation. Nationalistic insurrection. Concentration of attention on large confirmed pedophilia rings. The Trump effect. Stocks at all-time high. They want an implosion economy. Hatchet to agencies & sub-agencies.

Second hour - Stocks article title changed to be more pessimistic. Spinning Trump successes. Sign of things to come: Trump war with media. Victimization cult. Daily attack from Mainstream media. Gavin Mcinnes: Canary in the coalmine. Propaganda chips away from the ability to think for yourselves. The entire Left sore losers. Fake hate crimes, 99% of them are Liberals seeking attention. 'There should be trepidation'. 'The mainstream media numbers are pathetic'. Watched the death of magazines die before, now we're watching Mainstream media die. TYT & Drama. Free Speech, The Interview (movie) and North Korea. 'We tried it their way and it reeked of stallin-ism'. Clueless Kaepernick. 'I'm trying to shock people to the truth'. Thanksgiving rant. Chinese middle class women coming to US, anchor baby. 'Done with your whining'. 'Their god (the state) didn't deliver their messiah'. Cults demand you break ties. 'What happened to the so-called left?'. 'Who's in power? Easy test is who you can't make fun of'. More excited since Trump got in listeners aren't going back to sleep. 'We've always been fighting fascists'. Tucker Porn. Death Knell. 'They try to make you irrational by bringing your family into it'. Preparations for Civil Unrest. PizzaGate and Media's over-concentration on 1-2 places, the gunman. Tens of thousands of emails from Wikileaks & Podesta emails. David Ike. Pizza is things are codewords.

Third Hour - Italy votes, Brazil to pull out. IMF documents leaked in 2002. DOW jump to record highs after italian referendum. Is the US government behind media attacks on Trump?. Pelosi pressed on ghastly democratic losses. PizzaGate, a diversion while there's a lot more in Podesta emails. Deathblow against globalism 'positive things are happening but we're not out yet'. Doug Hagmann: 'Allegations are just that, suspicions. The fake news meme being applied. Don't get tunnel vision on any one place, person or location'. 'Pedophile rings have existed inside and outside of the belt for decades'. link (BBC &amp; Savile) [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/un-says-some-of-its-peacekeepers-were-paying-13-year-olds-for-sex/2016/01/11/504e48a8-b493-11e5-8abc-d09392edc612_story.html]link (UN) . '<i>media trying to push things to a "Post Truth" category</i>' [url=http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/im_a_pedophile_but_not_a_monster/]link (Pedophile not a monster) Link (Podesta &amp; Spirit dinner). 'This is far larger than the citizen journals are reporting'. 'They don't have a metric for this'. 'This is NOT fake news. There are elements of fake/false elements that were deliberately planted to create the illusion of it all being fake'. Insider intelligence 'Clinton Foundation at the epicenter of all of this'. The 650,000 emails, Weiner router, '2016 word of the year post-truth, that only the approved sources has the correct/true news'. Jimmy Savile. Pedophile ring is a world-wide epidemic. Sharif Silmi: 'I believe Alex Jones is partially responsible for this'. Description of events with the 'shotgun' guy at Comet Pingpong. Concealed weapon but no shotgun blast. Good pizza. No basement? 'Very normal Pizzeria, very nice, no weirdness'. The controversy/alleged pedophilia. Could Sharif have gotten a full 100% view of Pingpong pizza after only 1 pizza and 60 minutes in the front?

Fourth Hour - Silmi: 'Take the target off Comet PingPong'. The internet is crazy.. 'I've learned it's made up BS and doesn't matter', Podesta emails by the hundreds. Hagmann: 'i find it very curious he was more interested in defending/rehabilitating the place than describing the situation he witnessed'. Mixed bag, lot of territory covered. 'They are going to say "because of your reckless coverage, we have to censor you"'. Hotdogs & Escorts. It's a global crimescene. 'It's the people with power, influence, and cash that are involved'. 'This rabbit hole goes pretty deep'. Italy voted out. Next is Germany & France. They are going to push Authoritarianism and start a war, and they are after our free speech next! A 'Fake News' website is suing Washington post for Defamation <i>"You did not provide even a single example of 'fake news' allegedly distributed or promoted by Naked Capitalism or indeed any of the 200 sites on the PropOrNot blacklist"</i>. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9eJAYWwWcI]Italy votes against EU takeover, Globalism imploding. Violent crimes Skyrocketed in Germany after a million migrants have entered. Secret pact and plan to get in US through South America. Man accused of threatening to bomb workplace, Domestic ISIS agents? ISIS plans '<i>bloody Friday</i>' on inauguration day. Megyn Kelly. Moon holidays in a decade?
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Full Audio Podcast (<i>3 hours</i>)
Full (<i>3 hours</i>)
Daily Headlines

Nightly News - Infowars labeled a '<i>Fake News</i>' website by CBS (<i>who's censored real news</i>) CDC &amp; MMR vaccines &amp; swine flu (<i>or lack-thereof</i>). Is US government behind '<i>fake news</i>' attack on Trump? German Government worried about Islamophobia after Muslim refugee rapes and kills a top official's daughter. '<i>This act of kindness is going to be seen as a act of weakness</i>'. ISIS planning bloody Friday for Trump's inauguration. Government paid for creation of fake Al Qaeda videos. Iraqi boy (15) with suicide vest, but couldn't do it. 'Moderate Rebels' Admit they have Al-Qaeda ties with Trump ending US support for ISIS. PizzaGate 'we've been here before' PennState & SecondMile. The Brexit Betrayal. Skipping MainStream Media to use twitter to directly talk with the people 'If the press would cover me accurately & honorably, I would have far less reason to "tweet"'. 'If you ban Trump from twitter millions of people will drop their accounts on Twitter' Woman's anti-Trump rant. TrumpIt, TrumpTV, or other potential options if they censor him. Mighty Twitter Sword. STL Man arrested when threatened to bomb workplace. Bloody Friday 'ISIS doesn't say what they will be doing so is likely just an empty threat'. Expect 8+ years of Media anti-trump. Reporters flipping out over '<i>incident</i>'... of Trump accepting a congratulatory call from Taiwan, and angering China. The reality that is China, Organ harvesting. Two movies China doesn't want you to see: Human Harvest & The Bleeding Edge. China owns a lot of US Land, Companies, and a lot of our Media.

Recommended videos:
Why Capitalism Works
Post edited December 06, 2016 by rtcvb32
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Martek: But whatever - I agree to disagree.
That's fine, we can keep it short. I'm still fairly convinced that the number of vigilante conspiracy nuts is much smaller in other countries, if they exist at all; the Munich shooting was performed by a white supremacist with an intense hatred of migrants and refugees, and he only shot those with darker skin; peddling and defending the pizzagate conspiracy nonsense and therewith adding to the manufactured outrage is abject quite regardless of one's personal belief in the conspiracy; Breitbart is a white supremacist website that contains nothing but slander; and I do hope their consistent attack on e.g. Kellog's will eventually spell their doom.

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Shadowstalker16: EDIT : so now its down from ''sexual predator'' to ''trigger happy''?
No sir, Trump's still defo a sexual predator with deeply misogynist attitudes, unashamedly (standard evasion strategy when asked: "We can not afford political correctness"). What remains to be determined, of course, is whether he's a rapist, and I can not say with absolute certainty that he is, probably never will. I can say, however, that his accusers are painting a remarkably consistent picture of the man particularly from ten years ago.

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Shadowstalker16: I'm gonna say that something very important to consider is per capita or per cent likelihood to be raped. USA having a higher population will have more number of rapes but the percentage of women getting raped may be the same as other ''safer'' countries.
And the fuzzyness doesn't stop there, as rape isn't even an internationally consistent term, as statistics may just count the cases that ended in a conviction and as the estimated number of unreported cases or false accusations may or may not be included. So I don't think this is getting us anywhere really. The situation for women stinks in either country (and let's not get into the "only the Middle East still needs feminism" bullshit, thanks). I also don't even want to begin delving into the cultural differences and some proposed laws on the table of some other countries. I wasn't trying to make a statement of the "America is worst of all" kind, and I really didn't need to. Statistics still say refugees are less likely to commit crimes than German citizens (a statistic, of course, that includes migrants as German citizens). Martek was seizing on a singular case, and even that only as vague finger pointing, not with intent to discuss. It didn't have merit as a form of argument, and it certainly was unfit to provoke your response.

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Shadowstalker16: They were legally bound by the treaty nonetheless.
Two years after the war in Afghanistan started? I don't think so, really. But this is unfortunately a tangent too: It doesn't matter much what legal obligations were involved, because moral considerations should have been at the forefront anyway. And that applies in particular to the self proclaimed leaders of the free world.

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Shadowstalker16: And if we're talking numbers for reparations here, Germany sent least troops out of Germany UK and France, and sent the least of the three and the USA, but somehow wants to take most refugees? Seems that either your concept of history or justice is bent.
This really is the most important point here, and I'll gladly make it again, hopefully clearer. There is a muddied historic responsibility for a whole lot of countries, with the US of A being front and center. And there is a humanitarian obligation that basically the entire so called free world has. Germany is not making up for past misdeeds, Germany is not taking in refugees because grandpa was in the SS. Germany is taking in refugees because the only alternative is to have them die at the border. Heck, Angela Merkel is clearly scared out of her wits, she hasn't got a plan of integration, and my fellow countrywomen all too often forget that integration is a task for everyone, integrees and integrators. Germany doesn't "want to take most refugees". It just so happens that Germany does out of the sheer lack of alternatives and, of course, its relative size and economic stability.

What numbers e.g. Austria has taken in, considering Austria's size, is a marvellous feat that I have the greatest respect for.
Post edited December 06, 2016 by Vainamoinen
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Vainamoinen: " .. the Munich shooting was performed by a white supremacist with an intense hatred of migrants and refugees, and he only shot those with darker skin .. "
Both the "lying" "Mainstream media" (from whom I selected my example article; e.g., <span class="bold">CNN</span> so you would not "dismiss it out of hand") *AND* the (per your baseless slander) so-called "Alt-Right" news sites (such as Breitbart) paint a different picture of the attacker.

As CNN says, Ali Sonboly, the attacker, was, ".. an 18-year-old with dual German and Iranian nationality who was born and raised in Munich .." that had an Afghan accomplice. Sorry but that equals "Muslim", NOT "white supremacist". And CNN's saying that the " .. attacker was a mentally troubled individual" is an oft-used "code-phrase" for what the truth they don't want to actually say, "Islamic radical terrorist".

The LSM loves these "lone wolves". They get to act surprised and dumbfounded on every one of them. What? Another "lone wolf"? Must be mentally ill, and no one could have seen it coming" OVER AND OVER AGAIN. They're a great way to distract from the truth; if you are willing to swallow the BS.

So, you're going to call that attack as by a "white supremacist"? That appears to be simply untrue.

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Vainamoinen: I'm still fairly convinced that the number of vigilante conspiracy nuts is much smaller in other countries, if they exist at all ..
By that I assume you mean mass-shooter attacks, in Germany, such as this one, are either fewer, or don't exist at all.

Maybe they are "fewer"; but they definitely appear to "exist".

It's time to wake up..