Posted 11 hours ago
ClassicGamer592: This youtube channel explains what's wrong with Unreal Engine 5 and modern graphics.
And many games from the late 2000s still look good today like Killzone 2 running at native 720p with 2x MSAA on PS3. We don't need blurry TAA, upscaling, or frame generation to get amazing graphics back then. Now we have games running below 720p on PS5, or worse, running below 480p resolution on Xbox Series S on some Unreal Engine 5 games!
This video is really amazing and complex in details. And many games from the late 2000s still look good today like Killzone 2 running at native 720p with 2x MSAA on PS3. We don't need blurry TAA, upscaling, or frame generation to get amazing graphics back then. Now we have games running below 720p on PS5, or worse, running below 480p resolution on Xbox Series S on some Unreal Engine 5 games!
The kind that people don't like to watch and thus, fall on generalizations that caused this mess to begin with.
Generalization solutions don't work when you need something so precise as this and his explanation is really deep.
Gotta be honest, I couldn't understand all of it.
But what I noticed was (and I don't really think this is indie/AA devs fault):
I saw a pattern of companies creating huge amounts of propaganda for people to normalize and use specific products that are, apparently, being made by said people who made the propaganda before and normalize, again, said products in the market and for customers that have no access to information, supposedly.
As you explained, about how 2000's games can look good today with enough upscaling technologies and run well, I think its all because back then most developers had to create their own engines and had to optimize them to work with current time hardware.
Nowadays I always hear people saying: "Yeah, we could optimize that, but now we don't need to because we have the technology to run it!" Yes, sure! Just that 5% of humanity will have the money to enjoy it. The others will, well, as always, complain that product was not well made.
Dropping the "rant-like commentary", its a difficult problem to solve:
While we could argue that devs must develop their own engines like in the past, this is by no means feasible for 8th gen demands. Talking about small games with simple mechanics and not so many complex assets, maybe, but what about middle-sized dev companies producing AA games?
Those engines "empowered" (I started hating this word because of how its being used nowadays, but anyway... :P) developers to create AAA-like products and its amazing.
My mind rests in the idea that a middle-ground solution will be found where, like others have said on this thread, they will learn to use those awesome tools correctly, rejecting generalization tools that unoptimized games while embracing and developing technologies, with the community, that creates better optimized games for last gen and current gen hardware.
There are other problems "below the surface" though.
But this would derail the talk to the point of being another thread, and forum, discussion topic.
Thanks for sharing his channel and this amazing video!
idbeholdME: This is the core of the issue, yes. Time pressure and or wanting to cheap out by not hiring high level developers. It's much easier to hire a person and tell them "check these 2 boxes here and then do this" instead of someone who can modify the underlying engine code as needed and cook up a customized/modified solution for the project in question. And most importantly, it's much easier and cheaper to find somebody able to do work in a widely available engine tailored for large scale projects, than initiating someone completely from scratch into your in-house engine. When a developer can start working on the project immediately rather than having to go through a month long initiation to the inner workings of your custom engine before being able to start working, it saves a lot of money. That is also a major part of why a lot of studios are dropping their engines and switching to Unreal and there is pretty much guaranteed to be a steady supply of hirable, ready to go devs. Maintaining and updating/developing a custom, studio specific engine is extremely expensive.
But it's true UE focuses a lot on ease of use and may be pushing the still basically experimental features as the go-to/definitive solution a little too fast. Nanites and Lumen don't have to be used and may not always be the best solution for a specific scenario. But it's a choice by the developer, not really the fault of the engine. The features were first introduced with the launch of UE5, which is a mere 2.5 years ago. Look at Ray Tracing for example and how much time has passed before it started slowly becoming the norm.
Lastly, here are some highlights of the latest 5.5 version of the engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcmUZpdChhA
About this, completely agree. But it's true UE focuses a lot on ease of use and may be pushing the still basically experimental features as the go-to/definitive solution a little too fast. Nanites and Lumen don't have to be used and may not always be the best solution for a specific scenario. But it's a choice by the developer, not really the fault of the engine. The features were first introduced with the launch of UE5, which is a mere 2.5 years ago. Look at Ray Tracing for example and how much time has passed before it started slowly becoming the norm.
Lastly, here are some highlights of the latest 5.5 version of the engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcmUZpdChhA
Here's an example of that from the comments on the video liked by @ClassicGamer592:
@unrealcreation07 - 3 months ago
10 years Unreal developer here. I've never really been into deep low-level rendering stuff, but I just discovered your channel and I'm glad your videos answered some long-lasting questions I had, like "why is this always ugly and/or blurry, no matter the options I select?? (or I drop to 20fps)".
With time, i have developed a kind of 6th sense about which checkbox will visually destroy my game, or which option I should uncheck to "fix" some horrible glitches... but I still don't know why most of the time. In many cases, I just resign and have to choose which scenario I prefer being ugly, as I can never get a nice result in all situations. And it's kind of frustrating to have to constantly choose between very imperfect solutions or workarounds. I really hope you'll make standards change!
Not even the developer know what he is doing, and it kinda breaks hearts.
He's just following generalization criteria based on his own senses, or project superiors.
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Edits:
Wording, corrections, add info..
Post edited 10 hours ago by .Keys