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General discussionIllegal gambling ring in CSgo exposed!(87 posts)(87 posts)
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Posted July 05, 2016

But Valve is unique in letting players transfer their virtual possessions to third-party sites, many of which offer gambling
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Pheace: Which isn't strictly speaking true. It allows transfers between accounts. Those third party sites merely use xx accounts that run bots on those accounts that can trade between players. The API is merely used to identify the players, it's in no way used to transfer items 'to the site'.

As such, what they're doing is no different than trading between players, except they automated their accounts to do that, and they log what gets transferred to their bots, who it 'belongs' to, and then show that as people's "inventory" on their website. But in reality it's just stored on a random Steam account that is being used by the site.

So basically, the only connection Steam has to those sites is that it allows them to use the Steam API to uniquely identify players. The trading between accounts etc is done completely outside of that and to Valve looks no different than if I were to start a trade between you and me. If we had both logged into a betting site before there's no way for Valve to know if we started a trade because we gambled on that site or not. (of course, if all their bots are called 'CSGO-lotto' or whatever it's a little more obvious.) edit: Slight correction, the trade wouldn't be between us, it would be between one of us and a bot, then bot to the other. So it would require somehow finding out which accounts are being used by that specific site)

Still, I think at best this would come down to some form of negligence and maybe a requirement to police the websites that use their API, which, considering the number of websites involved would probably quickly lead to it becoming a closed system which will be much harder for sites to get access to.
Valve sponsor, helps financially and provide tech support for some of these gambling sites, there's actually a lawsuit going on because of this "blind eye" attitude. And even at this point if they start to implement some policy to their API there's nothing stopping people to gamble outside of their scope (those $2.3 billion).

Well, we will have to wait and see in the next few days how these things are going to get sorted out. It's a absolute mess of shadiness at this point.
Post edited July 05, 2016 by neurasthenya
Posted July 05, 2016
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neurasthenya: Valve sponsor, helps financially and provide tech support for some of these gambling sites
Source, please.
Posted July 05, 2016
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neurasthenya: Valve sponsor, helps financially and provide tech support for some of these gambling sites
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WBGhiro: Source, please.
The bloody article I've posted and have been quoting this entire thread.

Also, the lawsuit in case of interest.
Post edited July 05, 2016 by neurasthenya
Posted July 05, 2016
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WBGhiro: Source, please.
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neurasthenya: The bloody article I've posted and have been quoting this entire thread.

Also, the lawsuit in case of interest.
So basically what I described. That's the basis for their lawsuit. That Valve provides the OpenID API to uniquely identify the users and thus are 'sponsoring' these websites because they use it.
Post edited July 05, 2016 by Pheace
Posted July 05, 2016
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neurasthenya: The bloody article I've posted and have been quoting this entire thread.

Also, the lawsuit in case of interest.
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Pheace: So basically what I described. That's the basis for their lawsuit. That Valve provides the API to uniquely identify the users and thus are 'sponsoring' these websites because they use it.
Nope, the partnership with valve is quite direct (at least the Lounge site, didn't check the other two) as it was stated in the sodding article by one of the community managers of said site.

"Sven places his bets on an independent website called CSGO Lounge, the biggest destination for Counter-Strike skins gamblers. It provides scant information about its owners, how it complies with local gambling laws, or whether it has any consumer protections in place. Sven is unperturbed. After all, CSGO Lounge has one of the biggest names in video games in its corner. “I fully trust this site since everyone in the community uses it,” he said. “It’s even been recognized and helped by Valve.”

Sven being one kid that gambles on the site.

Again:

"These sites, while independently run, use Valve’s software and pay out in skins. Valve employees also communicate with CSGO Lounge and have given technical support to the site, said Courtney Timpson, a community administrator and spokesman for CSGO Lounge."

"Earlier this year, reports of a particularly high-profile incident reached Valve, and the company contacted CSGO Lounge to help identify the culprits, according to Timpson. In the end, Valve banned seven players from events it sponsors, and forbade professional players and team staff from gambling on matches, associating with high-volume gamblers, or sharing inside information. It didn’t take any visible action against the gambling sites themselves."

And again:

"Unregulated gambling on sports is illegal almost everywhere in the world, and some lawyers say this qualifies. The highest levels of competition in pro gaming have already seen match fixing by people looking to profit from skins gambling. Valve has ferreted out cheaters at times, but it has not discouraged gambling on its games, nor made any attempt to prevent people from using its products as currency. The company did not respond to repeated requests for comment for this story."
Post edited July 05, 2016 by neurasthenya
Posted July 05, 2016
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CARRiON.FLOWERS: Those said non-adults would need a credit card or debit card to not only buy the game but use the in-game market at all.
Which you'd be surprised how many of them can easily obtain one or just use their parent's account.

Edit: It brings a tear to my eye to see this snowball.
Post edited July 05, 2016 by Darvond
Posted July 05, 2016
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neurasthenya: 4th of July so I expect a official response by Valve by the end of 2059.
if court is involved expect 2016 straight out. cause if it involves money they will talk if not then we hear nothing for so long lol
Posted July 05, 2016
TotalBiscuit comments on the currently unfolding mess.
Posted July 05, 2016
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neurasthenya: Nope, the partnership with valve is quite direct (at least the Lounge site, didn't check the other two)
Checked the csgolounge site. The only "direct partnership" I saw was a "Powered by Steam" line on it, which says absolutely nothing. MaGoG is also "Powered by GOG", though Mrkgnao didn't include such a line, for reasons of his own (and mostly obvious ones).

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neurasthenya: as it was stated in the sodding article by one of the community managers of said site.
I have a contract with GOG. Official statement by me. Is it true or not?


P.S. Mrkgnao has also had GOG staff help him with technical issues with MaGoG, is MaGoG officially endorsed by GOG?
Posted July 05, 2016
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neurasthenya: Nope, the partnership with valve is quite direct (at least the Lounge site, didn't check the other two)
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JMich: Checked the csgolounge site. The only "direct partnership" I saw was a "Powered by Steam" line on it, which says absolutely nothing. MaGoG is also "Powered by GOG", though Mrkgnao didn't include such a line, for reasons of his own (and mostly obvious ones).
Yup, checked that aswell, seems to me that they are safe on that one and the OPSkins too.

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neurasthenya: as it was stated in the sodding article by one of the community managers of said site.
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JMich: I have a contract with GOG. Official statement by me. Is it true or not?
P.S. Mrkgnao has also had GOG staff help him with technical issues with MaGoG, is MaGoG officially endorsed by GOG?
I don't know, does GOG have any relation to a gambling site that is related to one of their IPs?
Posted July 05, 2016
There are scams, cheating and fraud on the internet!? Wow!!!
Opening Valve chests or buying TCG boosters is gambling for kids? No shit, Sherlock!

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Pheace: So basically what I described. That's the basis for their lawsuit. That Valve provides the API to uniquely identify the users and thus are 'sponsoring' these websites because they use it.
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neurasthenya: Nope, the partnership with valve is quite direct (at least the Lounge site, didn't check the other two) as it was stated in the sodding article by one of the community managers of said site.

(...)
All of this is completely irrelevant to the CSGO Lotto case. CSGO Lounge has nothing to do with it and is primarily used for CSGO item trading.

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WBGhiro: Source, please.
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neurasthenya: The bloody article I've posted and have been quoting this entire thread.

Also, the lawsuit in case of interest.
That's an allegation, not a source. Moreover, it's a big stretch to consider Valve providing an open API which can be used by anyone as "sponsoring" scam websites as alleged there. Youtube is just as guilty for letting these con artists upload their scam videos.

I understand most of us hate Valve here, but do you really think they would be so stupid as to get involved in something illegal such as CSGO Lotto just for some pocket change?
Post edited July 05, 2016 by Pardinuz
Posted July 05, 2016
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Pardinuz: That's an allegation, not a source. Moreover, it's a big stretch to consider Valve providing an open API which can be used by anyone as "sponsoring" scam websites as alleged there. Youtube is just as guilty for letting these con artists upload their scam videos.
One would say that gamers of all groups would be careful about flinging that kind of dirt around after their hobby has been and still sometimes is blamed for violence because there exist the loosest connection there. Apparently not.
Posted July 05, 2016
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Wishbone: TotalBiscuit comments on the currently unfolding mess.
You mean "assaults us with his otherwise soothing voice and makes us cry", obviously.
Posted July 05, 2016
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Titanium: You mean "assaults us with his otherwise soothing voice and makes us cry", obviously.
I'd be livid too if I were in his position. He'd done his damnedest to remain clear on advertising, and he has a child of his own.
Posted July 05, 2016
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Pardinuz:
No and I definitely not on the Valve hate train (I'm not that stupid). I'm not stating that their are promoting gambling either, what I'm saying is that there's a clearly "blind eye" position coming from them. "Oh it's an open API", "It's not gambling if it's just skins"... I just can't buy (hehe) that.

And just to clarify, the gaming grey markets exists from years, it's not that any publisher can control as it clearly show by various reports, but Valve ties with this market is so close, so dangerously close that I can't help to raise an eyebrow.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionIllegal gambling ring in CSgo exposed!(87 posts)(87 posts)
(87 posts)