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Lord_Kane: I say let GOG fall, let newer start ups do right where GOG has failed, GOG is never going to change, that has become apparent through out the years, with all these failed promises, like fixing the forums, no more rep, etc. etc.
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StingingVelvet: Haha, GOG provides DRM free offline installers for thousands of games for 13 years but now they need to go out of business because of a couple missteps? Who do you think will pick up the DRM free mantle, Valve? Epic?

L-O-L.
Is it funny that the CP 2077 release was so bad that CDP had to apologize for it, and that GOG doesn't have the organizational wherewithal to exercise due diligence with respect to whether or not a game is "DRM-Free"?
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Linko64: Discord is pretty active, we don't have a forum admittedly (nor do we have a billion-dollar group attached us)

As for everything else...well, in all honesty, you've been pretty dismissive of everything involving the site/service. No buzz etc is just untrue, there's been little marketing till recently (hi) which has seen big strides. As for sales, sure. But a good portion of the titles are pretty damn cheap.

I'll forgive some of the comments as you genuinely seem confused between the difference between something being quite well funded and attached to a multi-million dollar company and a small company doing their thing. I'm not going to sit here and pretend there's no sale, but I'm also not going to pretend that $5 for Duke Nukem 3D is a large amount either.

The goal is to support DRM-Free, preserve titles lost in the void and try and support as many OS as we can while providing the best quality possible. Thankfully, you as the consumer have options! Which is exactly the ideal of DRM-Free!

The process of signing games is long, very long. There are so many variables that go into it (which is partly why I'm surprised Hitman came here in this form). I know it seems easy on the outside looking in, but it's really not. I've seen it from multiple perspectives and the only time it gets easier is when big wads of cash are exchanged haha...or I guess...NFTS!?!!

I've said this multiple times, no one wants GOG to sink. That would be a huge step back from DRM-Free video games AND preservation. Options, consumer options at a core ideal that needs to be protected. If having options really bothers you, then at that point you have to question do you prize DRM-Free? or just the brand offering it? It's a vicious cycle...WWE vicious, not like blood and biting
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Cavalary: GOG didn't have a billion dollar group attached to it when it started either. CDPR had barely managed to avoid going under while working on The Witcher, didn't they? Now they're a major player, but when GOG was launched and during the early years, when GOG held to its principles, they were well known and quite powerful in Poland, but not so much internationally.

If I'm dismissive.... Admittedly, mainly did so earlier, before more dedicated people took over (not counting you and SlackR84, as actual employees), but I was trying to correct those who were suspicious of ZP...
But about marketing, I first learned of GOG from a newspaper from here. That was shocking, a digital game store in a newspaper from here. I mean, I didn't see news about Steam in one back then... And when I mentioned it to a friend, she said she knew and a few of her other friends were talking about it excitedly, at a time when "piracy" was still the rule around here and legal purchases quite odd. ZP, on the other hand... Well, strikes me that despite being around for years and having some industry veterans behind, even basically one-man effort and very niche Fireflower seems better known.

Still, about being dismissive. Well, you know, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. On the one hand, directly on topic, I was very excited about GOG as a beacon of light in this rotten industry in their early years, finally something worth supporting, promoting them however I could, and then got utterly betrayed, so that's one thing that makes me wary of any others making promises of having values. On the other, ZP already went back on their word given to me directly, after all, about Paysafecard as payment option, since I was told specifically that it'll be added and then it was decided that it wasn't feasible after all, and no similar alternative (something just as easily bought with cash around here and not requiring registration or accounts or other personal/payment information) was offered. So what if someday flat pricing will no longer be feasible, as in GOG's case? Or even DRM-free? Even more so since I never saw ZP actually make a point about flat pricing as a value, and it was a long time until DRM-free was listed again on the site. I mean, as we now see in case of GOG, even when it's claimed as the core value and always listed prominently that may eventually stop being the case, so how does it look when it seems that the designers just forgot all about it for months and months?
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kblazer883: Why would people buy their stock if they are getting to the point of not buying the games they distribute? People don't have to buy their stock to change the company. If you don't buy their stuff because of their practices they eventually go the way of the dodo. That would be unfortunate, but it is also a self-inflicted wound on GOG's part.
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Cavalary: Problem is that those who care for some values and for a direction stop buying while those who don't still do, making GOG management see profit in catering to the generic masses and dismissing the original userbase even more.
Always DRM free never went away with ZP, it was just a matter of putting out the messaging correctly on the homepage. They've had a lot of growing pains and work is still being done. Just join the Discord and maybe ask your questions directly, you can see in the server history that pretty much any question gets answered.

Nu e nicio vrajeala faraoane, nici eu nu stiam de ei nimic pana nu m-au cautat sa le fac grafica, dar e treaba buna si sunt multe imbunatatiri planuite pe viitor.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: To call it "a couple missteps" is quite the vast understatement, which greatly downplays the problems, tremendously more so than they should be.
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StingingVelvet: I'm sure you think so.
Ancient is not the only one that thinks that way. If you think a long string of decline is a couple missteps, then you fall in the category of people that @Cavalary talks about in post #45 and I can't help you. I don't want a Steam clone. I want what brought me to GOG in the first place.
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Cavalary: GOG didn't have a billion dollar group attached to it when it started either. CDPR had barely managed to avoid going under while working on The Witcher, didn't they? Now they're a major player, but when GOG was launched and during the early years, when GOG held to its principles, they were well known and quite powerful in Poland, but not so much internationally.

If I'm dismissive.... Admittedly, mainly did so earlier, before more dedicated people took over (not counting you and SlackR84, as actual employees), but I was trying to correct those who were suspicious of ZP...
But about marketing, I first learned of GOG from a newspaper from here. That was shocking, a digital game store in a newspaper from here. I mean, I didn't see news about Steam in one back then... And when I mentioned it to a friend, she said she knew and a few of her other friends were talking about it excitedly, at a time when "piracy" was still the rule around here and legal purchases quite odd. ZP, on the other hand... Well, strikes me that despite being around for years and having some industry veterans behind, even basically one-man effort and very niche Fireflower seems better known.

Still, about being dismissive. Well, you know, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. On the one hand, directly on topic, I was very excited about GOG as a beacon of light in this rotten industry in their early years, finally something worth supporting, promoting them however I could, and then got utterly betrayed, so that's one thing that makes me wary of any others making promises of having values. On the other, ZP already went back on their word given to me directly, after all, about Paysafecard as payment option, since I was told specifically that it'll be added and then it was decided that it wasn't feasible after all, and no similar alternative (something just as easily bought with cash around here and not requiring registration or accounts or other personal/payment information) was offered. So what if someday flat pricing will no longer be feasible, as in GOG's case? Or even DRM-free? Even more so since I never saw ZP actually make a point about flat pricing as a value, and it was a long time until DRM-free was listed again on the site. I mean, as we now see in case of GOG, even when it's claimed as the core value and always listed prominently that may eventually stop being the case, so how does it look when it seems that the designers just forgot all about it for months and months?

Problem is that those who care for some values and for a direction stop buying while those who don't still do, making GOG management see profit in catering to the generic masses and dismissing the original userbase even more.
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mbmunteanu: Always DRM free never went away with ZP, it was just a matter of putting out the messaging correctly on the homepage. They've had a lot of growing pains and work is still being done. Just join the Discord and maybe ask your questions directly, you can see in the server history that pretty much any question gets answered.

Nu e nicio vrajeala faraoane, nici eu nu stiam de ei nimic pana nu m-au cautat sa le fac grafica, dar e treaba buna si sunt multe imbunatatiri planuite pe viitor.
GOG doesn't have growing pains. They are steadily changing their business model and proclaimed ideals.
Post edited September 29, 2021 by kblazer883
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Sabin_Stargem: Is the current management of GOG the founders of the business, or did the old guard get replaced at some point?
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Zrevnur: The current management is mostly still the old guard and the 2 founders (one of them joint-CEO) are also the biggest insider shareholders.

See for example:
https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/capital-group/board-of-directors/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_Projekt
https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/investors/shareholders/
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7PCGamer: hmm.. i believe gog's strategy is to sell drm free games at a significant premium. my guess is as long as they don't outgrow costs relative to the market, this business should be self sustainable.but growth is a different problem altogether.. have you checked cdpr's financial statements.. would be interesting to know actual numbers.
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Zrevnur: GOG is currently (H1 2021 / post CP2077) making losses. As it is my impression is that GOG in the past has only been profitable due to getting ~30% share of CDPR games. I do not believe this is due to necessity though but rather due to their expansive business strategy and such which causes high costs.

You can see actual numbers and my take on it here:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/boycotting_gog_2021/post2870
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/boycotting_gog_2021/post2924
is there a readily available ebitda estimate?
R&D capitalization needlessly complicates analysis, especially when most of it is just wages.. hope there are no further unnecessary complications like deferred revenues, european companies seem to like that concept
Post edited September 29, 2021 by 7PCGamer
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7PCGamer: is there a readily available ebitda estimate?
Not that I know of.
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7PCGamer: R&D capitalization needlessly complicates analysis, especially when most of it is just wages.. hope there are no further unnecessary complications like deferred revenues, european companies seem to like that concept
Also relating to that: Some of the interesting information they may intentionally be hiding or obfuscating. For example things relating to unfavorable (for GOG) contracts with publishers such as them guaranteeing sales that later dont happen.
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Timboli: GOG are already competing with Steam, as are others like Epic and even Itch.io etc.
GOG is certainly not "already competing with Steam" and neither is itch.io either. Both GOG and itch.io have minuscule and completely insignificant sales when compared vs. Steam.

GOG is an absolute non-factor in Steam's point of view.

The same could possibly be said of EGS too, even though EGS has vastly more market share than both GOG and itch.io do (but EGS' market share is still tiny when compared vs. Steam).

Whether EGS is actually competing with Steam yet is debatable. EGS has made a little bit of a dent in Steam's market share, but not much.

GOG has made no dent at all in Steam's market share.

In fact, many, probably most, GOG customers seem to be fine & dandy with buying games on Steam, and they frequently do. And then many years later, after the game has become old & obsolete, those same Steam customers will sometimes double-dip and buy it again on GOG (which is probably also one of the reasons why GOG rarely gets new AAA games...because the publishers know if they gave it to GOG on day 1, then they would be eliminating all their double-dip revenues that they would otherwise have collected many years after the game has become stale).
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: GOG is certainly not "already competing with Steam" and neither is itch.io either. Both GOG and itch.io have minuscule and completely insignificant sales when compared vs. Steam.
If we are just going by the odds of overall numbers you would likely be right.

But the fact is, many do buy a game here instead of at Steam ... the same game.
Many who are happy enough with Steam, buy a DRM-Free version of a game here at GOG instead, if they can.

So there is definitely competition going on, even if it is minuscule, and of course, it has been growing, and who knows where it may end up one day, especially when GOG have deals with others like Epic.

I never claimed they were competing on an even playing field.