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ET3D:
Nah, realtime brush painting in PS utilises ram and cpu more than anything - hell I use an HD 4000 and it does the job pretty well (expecially when you consider most of my pieces START at A0 and above).

Plus, who wants cloud based photoshop?! O_____o
Gimme CS3 over that poo anyday! ;D
I hate PC shopping. some people like it. I can't fathom. IMO, getting out of the PC market and into your games is the reward for slogging through that shit.

if it wasn't a problem, the Steam machine initiative wouldn't exist.

I know nothing of the UK market for PCs and it's more than just a case of currency conversion. so because of this, I have no idea where your $350 GBP budget puts you, sorry.

some things I'd share

in 2016 we move from 28nm process node which we've been using for years to 16 and 14nm processes which are double the density. which means, GPUS, get their next big bump. which means, if he buys into anything current, right now, he might regret it when it can't play shit. now, I think this is why NX is launching sooner than later and I think it will be fairly powerful because nvidia and AMD want to push a short console cycle by using Nintendo as a lever, so they got a nice rate on whatever chip is going in it.

but all this means that if he buys an expensive GPU there is no telling how long it will be good for. people say "my 970 will last me a long time" but with nvidia there is 0 guarantee of any kind of software support. so even if the thing can run the game, if it relies on driver-side optimizations, it might still run like crap if those optimizations haven't been done. VULCAN and the new opengl initiatives do mitigate that concern somewhat. but we have to see how that shakes out. the only thing that can be depended on to counteract any of this is that with the economy the way it is, people don't like to upgrade and like to get more of their cards. and developers want to sell their games to more than just a tiny bunch of folks with substantively marked up hardware.

prebuilts often have weak PSUs. this is partly because they don't need a lot of juice, and partly because more mainstream upgrades like ram and storage drives don't consume a ton of extra energy. it almost means that you might need to buy a PSU later if your PSU isn't sufficient for a graphics card upgrade. the wattage of PSU is something you need to take into account if you're looking at upgradability. in addition, prebuilts often have slimmer, custom cases. these cases can interfere with adding a normal sized PSU and you may be forced to buy a much more expensive small form factor PSU if you can find one that will fit at all.

buying an FX based prebuilt, while you may get a good price, comes with some heavy disadvantages. poor single thread performance (still important for games though vulcan and new opengl could change that), higher power consumption, older motherboard platform lacking in modern i/o like USB3, m2, sata express, and USB3.1.

generally speaking, the best bang for your buck is buying a prebuilt and adding in a low-TDP GPU like 750ti or 260X/370. however, other cards than the 750ti need a 6pin or 8pin lead, which a prebuilt PSU may not have. again, this could all change when the new cards drop and it could end up being that you get cheap bins of these new cards (because yields on new stuff are shitty. they bake the stuff like cookies and some come out good and some do not) that are energy efficient enough not to need 6pin or 8pin lead.

pay attention to whether or not your PC comes with win10 or whether you're in the upgrade window because Microsoft may yet keep dx12 exclusive to win10 if developers do not support vulcan strongly enough.

not to burst your bubble, this is after all just one person's opinion, but in general, buying a PC for gaming, again, in my opinion, is a shitty experience of mark up acceptance or heavy compromising. maybe steam machines will change this a bit.
Post edited October 22, 2015 by johnnygoging
I upgraded some systems in my house recently on the cheap and came upon some interesting revelations:

1) For most games, GPU is much more important than CPU/RAM. I upgraded the following 7-year-old system with an Nvidia GTX 750ti (~$110 USD) and it can now run games like Ultra Street Fighter IV & Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed perfectly smoothly:

CPU: Core2Duo e7300 (2.66 GHz)
Motherboard: el cheapo Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, PCI Express 1.0 slot only (not 3.0 or even 2.0)
RAM: 2 GB DDR2 RAM (yep, DDR2!)
HDD1: Crucial 64GB SSD (running OS)
HDD2: 3TB Western Digital Green (game installations + storage)
PSU: 600w off-brand unit
OS: Windows 7 OEM, upgraded to Windows 10 (still in free upgrade period)

This system, perhaps even with slightly better specs like a low-grade i3 and 4GB DDR3 RAM with a GTX 750ti, could probably be made/upgraded from a used desktop acquired through eBay for $250-$300 USD in total. This build is being used as my HTPC, and it connects to a 40" TV via HDMI, 1080p projector via HDMI switch, and has 4 XBOX360 wireless controllers connected to it via USB dongle so it functions perfectly as a Netflix + 1080p movie machine / Console-style system in addition to being fully capable with most current generation PC games.

2) Some pre-built companies like HP/Compaq or Dell might use proprietary motherboards and BIOS systems which do not work with all upgrade components. Be careful if purchasing a used pre-built from one of these mass-makers because in my case, an HP system came with a Pegatron Cleveland HL-8 motherboard that would not accept a PCIe 3.0 card, despite the fact that 99% of all motherboards with even just a PCIe 1.0 slot should allow compatability with a PCIe 3.0 card.
Post edited October 22, 2015 by the.kuribo
another thing I want to say is that he should try and maybe find someone who builds them for people. like I said, some people enjoy building shit. look around locally for computer shops or university IT circles to find somebody who can put one together for you. even you pay a fee it might end up saving your more. the best bang for buck is prebuilt + small card, but you can run smack into problems like I and the.kuribo mentioned. 600GBP should get you something quite nice. sale times are in summer and at the end of november and also december.

pcpartpicker.com

a lot of people would tell you not to buy alienware. I would do the same. unless you want to be paying mark ups on your case and keyboard styling as well as your parts.
Post edited October 22, 2015 by johnnygoging
A nice entry to pc gaming for your friend,and at a reasonable price.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZR-a35sxLg
The latest AMD APUs have integrated graphics on par with or better than consoles. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the gaming experience is better, since the games are not optimised (euphemism) in a comparable fashion on PC and on consoles

Now , with a limited budget, I would consider two routes

a) the best possible athlon x4 processor 860K or in the near future 870K( an A10 apu stripped from its graphic core ) with a R9 270X, some serious amount of RAM and good HDD . That's the most cost effective solution

b) the equivalent A10 78xxK APU , that will allow him to save some money as it will rely on its integrated R7 GPU. At a later stage, adding a better discrete card remains an option. But if the intention is to add it from the start, option a) will be as effective and cheaper.

Both will be under or around 500 GBP, the second possibly around 400...

I wouldn't even care about FX processors at this stage. AMD is not investing a penny into improving them, meaning that their computing performance per core is lagging behind... plus you probably would then want putting some money into heaat dissipation devices, with a final budget close to that of a better Intel system.

In the higher range of your budget bracket, you might be able, provided you find some good discounts, to go for an Intel I5 ( 6500 fi) . Performance-wise a better choice when teamed to a mid-range Nvidia GPU (750i fi) . There, we speak about a marked difference with consoles ( faster graphics @ 1080p vs 720p ) But without discount you will easily be around 750 GBP...

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Navagon: , I'd say make the necessary investments in motherboard and PSU now. Don't skimp on these because perceived savings will bite you in the arse in the long run.
+1 on this. A good PSU , An adequate - even if not oversophisticated MB , and a correct case. The system will be healthier , and last longer.
Post edited October 22, 2015 by Phc7006
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Sachys: Nah, realtime brush painting in PS utilises ram and cpu more than anything - hell I use an HD 4000 and it does the job pretty well (expecially when you consider most of my pieces START at A0 and above).
32 GB of RAM it is! More seriously nothing less than 8 GB and that as a single stick.
This seems very cheap. Don`t know anything about AMD cpu though, except Intel usually seen as better.

Case Cougar MG100 Micro ATX Gaming Case (Other cases optional)
Power Supply Super Flower 350W 80+ Bronze Rated PSU
CPU AMD A8-7670K 3.6GHz (3.9Ghz) Quad Core APU (Upgrades Optional)
Motherboard Gigabyte A68HM-HD2 (Socket FM2+) Micro ATX Motherboard
Cooler Akasa AK-876 CPU Cooler
Memory Up to 16GB DDR3 2133MHz Dual Channel Kit
Primary Hard Drive Your Choice of Samsung 850 Evo Solid State or Seagate Hard Drive
Secondary Hard Drive Your Choice Seagate Hard Drive
Graphics AMD Onboard HD Graphics
Audio 7.1 High Definition Audio
Optical Drive Optional
Wireless Networking Optional
Operating System Windows 10 64 Bit Pre-Installed.

I`d deffo upgrade the PSU & add a gfx card too though.
Also it`s a micro case, get larger, makes life easier.
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Sachys: no real requirements, though I think they're looking at using a good quality TV as opposed to a monitor (at least to begin with)
A wireless mouse, keyboard and possibly also a gamepad, then? Unless they intend to either sit next to the TV, or bring the PC close to them with a long HDMI cable.

I've been wondering, are there good "wireless HDMI" (video+audio) solutions out, especially with low latency? That's the only cable going between the TV and my laptop anyway. I usually keep the laptop near the TV, and control the laptop with a wireless mouse and keyboard.

For PC gaming using a HDTV is great, but for normal desktop use (browsing the net, writing messages to GOG etc.) maybe less so, unless they have a very big TV, or sit close to it (in which case HEV light with destroy their eyes, unless they buy amber HEV-fiitering glasses :)).
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Sachys: What I need now is a basic "bang for your buck" round up of what he can get for his money.
Straight up i'd say any modern CPU (1Ghz or faster) and a halfway decent graphics card, and you can do really good emulation for 8 & 16 bit machines, basically NES through Playstation/Dreamcast.

Of course that's not modern gaming and won't include games like COD or most GoG games and the like... But the sheer number of games (if you get ahold of them somehow) seems like a great value in time/games vs money.
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fishbaits: Case Cougar MG100 Micro ATX Gaming Case (Other cases optional)
Power Supply Super Flower 350W 80+ Bronze Rated PSU
CPU AMD A8-7670K 3.6GHz (3.9Ghz) Quad Core APU (Upgrades Optional)
Motherboard Gigabyte A68HM-HD2 (Socket FM2+) Micro ATX Motherboard


I`d deffo upgrade the PSU & add a gfx card too though.
Also it`s a micro case, get larger, makes life easier.
I wouldn't go for such a small case, and I would avoid that motherboard. Sure it's cheap, but there is a reason for that. A10 APUs are better than A8, especially if intending to rely on the integrated graphics, and the price difference isn't that big. Like I said above if intending to add a discrete GPU, then the Athlon X4 8xxK are much better value for money.
Did you decide on anything, Sachys?

I went to the PC Specialist site, chose 'configure a desktop' (that's where the link leads) and 'Intel based systems'. I configured a PC with a Core i5-6400, 8GB RAM, GeForce 950, 2TB HD, Corsair 450W PSU and the rest as defaults. Ended up £595. With a Core i5-6500 (which has a significantly higher clock than the 6400) it's £602. So far it's the best spec I could find for a pre-built PC.
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ET3D: Did you decide on anything, Sachys?

I went to the PC Specialist site, chose 'configure a desktop' (that's where the link leads) and 'Intel based systems'. I configured a PC with a Core i5-6400, 8GB RAM, GeForce 950, 2TB HD, Corsair 450W PSU and the rest as defaults. Ended up £595. With a Core i5-6500 (which has a significantly higher clock than the 6400) it's £602. So far it's the best spec I could find for a pre-built PC.
Well, its not me that gets to decide.

Thats not bad though - presume it will be fully guaranteed etc as well.
Hey, where's Sachys? There's a Frankenstein chimp in the room.

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Sachys: Thats not bad though - presume it will be fully guaranteed etc as well.
1 month collect & return, 1 year parts, 3 year labour.
Can be upgrade to '1 year collect & return' for £5.
Well, you've all given me plenty to chew over and relate to the Yogmeister. I didn't expect a definitive answer, but I think yours

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johnnygoging:
...is the best all-round advice from my point of view. Thanks everyone will let you know what happens down the road - or return with more specific know-how needed.