I see. That makes sense.
(Note to self: stop being an uncultured boor and read some Shakespear)

While we learned who was responsible for the nights without deaths, and holy freck for a first time player Carradice had extremely successful night actions, we unfortunately don't learn more from them about our surroundings other than, well, yogsloth was suspect (he was) and GR was targeted (he was). We don't know the accomplices of yogs or SPF, or who targeted GR yesterday. If Joppo was watcher he missed a lot by not watching GR instead, but he's a tracker and I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking I am the guy - that is if he's truthful.

Wait a minute, what did Joppo claim again? Oh great, my internet cut out just now. I was wondering if Joppo claimed some sort of modifier? Look at our available power roles. OK, internet back, Gryffindor Tracker.

I actually held back on some of my claim. I claimed I was Neville Longbottom, Town Miller, while leaving out that I had a 1-shot Investigation Immune modifier - I knew it was going to show up in my flip when I made the claim and preferred to keep it a surprise, not knowing I'd be spared. I had a powerful spell I could use once, that would make me read as Town instead of anti-Town for the one night I use it. I used it Night 3, when my instinct told me that the cop was very likely to investigate me over the previous ones.

Don't stop here: look at the other power role claims. 3-shot cop, two 3-shot JOATs, a bodyguard (1-shot by definition), 1-shot Mafia role cop, a neighborizer who could make one neighbor. Some of these roles compulsive. Look at Joppo's claim. He tracked four people on four nights. That's overpowered compared to everything else. Why is that?

Pooka's extended claim seems like a weird modifier, but nearly every role has had a modifier this game, so I agree that it is likely Pooka had one. If he is lying about his team or (what modifier it is) or nay, I cannot tell. However, he raises a good point about Joppo having 4 actions being...unusual.

On the subject of Joppo, he has had the worstest of luck in finding anything to report. Also a tracker is kinda dull of a PR in my book, and not every game has had one, so it is maybe a safe scum claim? Joppo has been claiming to have done things that (if scum and he picks people who are not scum and have claimed vanilla) are easy to verify--they are town and said they are powerless, so a tracker can safely claim to have followed them. By chance or not, every one of Joppo's claimed trackings has been useless. Bad luck if town, easy to hide if scum.

=======================
@Lift: Pooka was on my list because millers are more or less never clearable (unless they have the modifier Pooka claims to have, if it works as Pooka says it does). However, you raise a good point about vote order. OTOOH, a ninja would not be seen, so Joppo might be town and still see zilch.

Your own statement yesterday was to the effect that if you were the last scum you'd not retreat but be as vocal as possible, plus your vanilla claim (not being able to claim/demonstrate a power), plus your ability to play scum and fool nearly all into thinking you are town = very suspect :-D

======================
@ALL If this is indeed RM, there very well might be a scum JOAT with the ability to perform a nighttime removal separate from the team's removal. I think there was one in game 57 or thereabouts? However, I doubt that this would work with only 1 scum left.
(@Joe ^^?

7 of us. at two scum-eliminations a Night we have toDay and toMorrow.

@Carradice played an excellent game.

@Agentcarr Did Carradice say anything in night chat to explain why he feels Lift is town? Did he clear him somehow?

has everyone claimed? If not, I think the time has come.

Would vote
Caesar
Joppo (not 3-shot? MUST reveal any known modifier toDay)
Pooka (policy, maybe ninja?)
Lift (niggling feeling he is scum because I'm reading him as town, plus above.)

OK. I have two 'WAIT WHAT?!' questions.

Wait what? You held back a modifier that targets mainly Town-PRs? That is set to cause confusion when you are targeted? This is very bad play? Town couldn't profit from that withholding of information at that point. You risked causing confusion without any possible benefit for Town!
Also: why would you not have been 'spared'? You're still a shaky Miller, which is a possible policy lynch. No way scum would do us the favour of removing an insecurity for us! Not with 5 mostly confirmed players around! This sentence, that you didn't know you would be spared, reads very, very much like LAMIST!
What's more: investigation immune probably would also make you immune to tracking and things like that. If Joppo is Town, he could have used his tracking last Night better than wasting it on a potentially immune target. I repeat: this withholding of information was very anti-town!

Well, you should! This is the second 'wait what?' - You protected yourself instead of the Cop (who might have had shots left) or the hard-confirmed innocent child? Both more likely targets than you! I see the reason not to suspect Carradice would be targeted, since scum could still have tried pushing the 'Godfather' angle, leaving him alive for that. But protecting yourself over two more strongly confirmed players is very selfish! Or very self-absorbed that you rate yourself as more important.

I would hate it too. But it isn't unlikely. On the contrary: that's the standard function of a Poisoner. It bypasses a Doctor's protection and can only be prevented by a Poison Doctor. So if Scum have a Poisoner, it would fit with the second death last Night and no death in the Night before that.

:p The Mirror ability was passive - I couldn't choose who to target.


Not in #57. It's the sort of thing I'd do, but I can't recall doing it... Maybe it was in one of the games I didn't play.
It's not impossible for mafia to be able to do an action and a kill on the same night. And it's not impossible for the mafia to have a vig kill as an extra action. There's a few things it could be.


...

So.
unvotus Joppo

Why aren't we lynching Lifthrasil?

Vote Count

Caesar 1 - Lift
Lift 1 - Joe
party 1 - GameRager

Not voting - Caesar, Micro, joppo, Pooka, agent

7 Players. Takes 4 to lynch.

I can easily answer that. While I did suspect Ceasar more than Pooka it was not by a wide margin. And when it came time to submit my action I started to think that, if Pooka was in a scum team with another player he would feel comfortable enough to be the one performing the NK or use a night action, thinking I wouldn't follow him. The same idea wouldn't apply to Caesar, who knowing that a tracking on him was likely to come would probably prefer to let an hypothetical partner handle the NK.
Besides, Miller is a suspicious claim after all. It's a very convenient claim for scum to hide behind. Worthy of tracking.

[1] - Why do you worry only about who targeted GR yesterday? Do you know who killed Carradice?

[2] - A tracker is overpowered? Since when??
It's a decent role, especially by endgame when there are less players and PR shots around so it is more likely to find NKs, but in no way I can say it is overpowered. Compare to a watcher who could just keep their eyes on a likely target and is bound to find the scum.
A cop with a lot of shots is overpowered (GR's 3 being ok but not far from gamebreaking), and most of the JOAT shots are much more powerful than anything I can offer. Scum's role-cop was powerful. I think tracker by itself is weak enough that ZFR allowed it to be unlimited.
I'd also suppose I am unlimited because after GR was spent and Joe psychoanalyzed someone we would have no more investigative roles. But you'd better ask ZFR after the game is over.

=============================
@Microfish: Sorry for suspecting people who didn't give results, but the remaining scum is hiding well. Maybe I shouldn't follow Lift's advice after all. If I pick only vanilla claimers I will only get scum who claimed vanilla and they may have claimed something else.

And don't forget that I reported Caesar didn't move during N1 long before he claimed vanilla. If I were scum doing it in a role-heavy setup like this it would be a very risky gamble.

Answering your question: I have no modifiers, at least none that I'm aware of. But maybe I have a secret modifier? It's up to ZFR to respond later or we will know after I flip.

========================================
@Joe: Indeed, Lift does look weirdly different from how I read him in earlier days. This is much more like how I remember scum!Lift. Can you build a case?

nice

EBWOP

Scum's role-cop was powerful enough that ZFR limited it to one shot. I think tracker by itself is weak enough that ZFR allowed it to be unlimited.

That is all

What. I just confused two players with my morning post. I have a lot of time, so let me.

Looksies. I will explain what my 1-shot Investigation Immune does. Paraphrased from my PM: if I use my 1-shot spell during a night, then if anyone does an investigation (read: those that are done by cops), I will be correctly identified as Town, instead of the miller's usual anti-Town result. It does not prevent the cop from investigating me and has no effect on Joppo's tracking abilities - zero. If he did use his investigation on me yesterday, then what he got was indeed what happened and not a "no result" result.

Also, I used the ability on Night 3 (I claimed on D4), so the point that I made Joppo waste a track on me last night (Night 4) is moot.

"Look at me using the phrase Look at me I'm so town!"

My distaste for the phrase aside, when I claimed, I did say I was going to get lynched because I claimed miller. By "spared" I meant that somehow, I had not been lynched for my claim as I once thought - and what I planned for by holding back my claim of the 1-shot. I held it back because I expected someone would make a false claim including a power role, and miss the memo that the PRs in this game are mostly X-shots. Right now, that no X-shot claim belongs to Joppo, and am interested in knowing if he's indeed a limitless Town tracker or scum who made a bad claim.

Response to Joppo later.

Hm. I don't like this very much... You're expressing willingness to join Lifthrasil's wagon (unsurprising, as you were on his wagon at the end of yesterDay) but you're unable to put together the reasons why. If Joe presents the case then he'll be the one who looks bad when it goes sour? Is that your plan?


That said, my read is based on:
- his Day One interactions with Yogsloth and SirP (not too much, not too little with Yogsloth. Yogsloth town read him. SirP had very little interaction.) (<- from memory, Correct me if I'm wrong.)
- his aggressive mocking playstyle,
- He's claimed some vanilla nobody (Apologies, Hannah fans.) at a time when a weightier false claim had some risk.
- Does anybody understand why Carradice was town-reading him?

Caesar, on the other hand, who seems to be most people's fave.
- Yogsloth scum read him and pushed for his lynch a few times, with little interest.
- Claimed some vanilla nobody (Truth hurts, Penelope fans) AT A TIME where he could have safely false-claimed ANYBODY.

My current fave lynch order is:
Lifthrasil
Joppo
Pooka
Caesar
Carr
Microfish

Gentlemen, I have been rechecking some things that were nagging at the back of my mind and I have just noticed we should take a better and closer look at our supposed JOAT.

First of all, didn't anyone find it strange that Joe had at least 4 shots? Pooka has been pressing me hard because of my unlimited PR, but Joe's claims have shown he has a lot more power than me.

But more than that, I found it suspicious that Town had not one but two JOATs. I could see a second tracker or even a watcher as not too hard to balance, but a second JOAT? Did ZFR run out of ideas for roles he could add instead? So I started thinking what if he was a scum that was taken by surprise with Carradice's flip?

Which brings me to analyze his claims more closely:
In #1103 he said
N1 he psychoanalyzed GR: everyone knew GR was the cop days before his claim. He also said that GR's modifiers were Epic and 3-shot - Epic was widely known and GR had already claimed to be out of shots in post #1088, where he says that he uted Yog as Scum while he still had ONE shot left (that he used in Carradice in N3). Pretty easy to fake.

N2 he says he vigi-shot SPF: two possibilities come to mind with this. One, he is not a scum but a serial killer who decided to cash in town credits for killing a scum. Two, he is scum who somehow discovered there was not a vigilante but an SK on the loose and decided to get town points for the death of their partner, knowing the SK wouldn't out themself. Given how convoluted this second theory is I'm more inclined to believe the first.

N3 is the biggest argument he can make for himself. He claimed to protect GR and nobody contradicted him. Notice, however, that even supposing GR was the target, he didn't die due to Carradice's protection that Agent told us above. If there wasn't a neighbour chat this information would be lost and Joe's claim would go undisputed. I don't know why Carradice decided not to confront Joe, but at least we have no doubt that what Agent told us is true.
@Agent: Did Carradice mention anything regarding this "coincidence" of protection?

N4 Joe said he used a passive reflector shot that was wasted and thus cannot be verified

At the very least he can't be unsuspected like he was until now. But I am certain of what I'm doing. If I'm wrong lynch me first thing the next day.

bat-bogey hex JoeSapphire

So...

Micro is confirmed as an innocent child, no questions.

Agent is confirmed as a neighborizer, assumed at least non-mafia.

Nobody counterclaimed Joe for killing SPF Night 2. However, his position has become weaker with Carr's protecting GR on Night 3. Is he the fabled neutral? If there's a Serial Killer that means that he has only killed on even-numbered nights (SPF in N2 and one of the night kills in N4). Since we don't know of other roleblocks, he would be limited by his role. Would such a character be able to kill all the other players? What's more likely, Joe telling the truth or a nerfed serial killer?

Joppo can't prove his role, as none of his results resulted in anything other than "did nothing". At least he was right about me -although I didn't expect anyone to be surprised of my claiming a Vanilla Townie, if you remember my earlier posts.

Pooka or Lift can't prove their roles (well, neither can I). But if Joppo is who he says he is, then Pooka is cleared. However, I don't get why Pooka hid his modifier when it actually mattered and mentioned it now that it has no effect.

I know I am Town. So that leaves Joppo, Pooka and Lift as suspects for mafia and perhaps Joe as a neutral.

Even my PM kind makes fun of that...

@Pooka: thanks for the answer. In that way your expectation to die due to getting lynched makes more sense.

Ah, OK. In that case it wasn't selfish. ;-)

Because Lifthrasil is Town.
Let's do a quick calculation: We are probably at 5 vs 2. If you lynch me it will be 3 vs 2 tomorrow. Assuming and hoping that the double kill was a one-time thing. So you'll be at LYLO and have then to lynch correctly. I am fairly confident that Consul is either scum or neutral, so lynching me now might not spell doom for Town if you lynch him tomorrow. But still I would prefer if we lynch Scum today instead of me.

That raises the question: have you ever seen me as Town!Lift before? As Joe noticed himself, you seem awfully willing to just go along with a wagon that might succeed without making a case of your own!

That is a very bad thing to ask in our situation, if you really are Town. If the next lynch is a mis-lynch, we HAVE to lynch scum tomorrow. I don't think a Town player should offer himself in this way as 'next day's lynch' in this way in case of a mislynch! Scum, however, could try to drive a mislynch wagon with the seemingly towny statement of 'I'm so sure that I offer myself as tomorrow's lynch'. Knowing that Town will be at LYLO the next day and hoping that he can still wiggle out of this 'lynch me next' statement due to that. So I don't like this last sentence of you at all!

That being said, the scenario you propose could be true. So I guess Joe isn't cleared after all! Two JOATs are indeed strange and he could be an SK. Especially since his reported protection would have been ineffective anyhow if it was a Poisoner who did the kill. (Although I guess a Role-stopper should have stopped a Poisoner as well)

Hrm. That doesn't make the pool smaller or the game easier to solve! So now it's Consul, Joppo or Joe, in that order. I still assume that Pooka is partially cleared and has a lower likelihood of being scum.

I was wondering why nobody was mentioning the two Jack-Of-All-Tradeses. It is unusual.

You're forgetting my winky face! It's hard to fake a knowing wink if you don't actually know.

but yeah, Carradice's actions reveal kinda crapped on all my credibility didn't it?

It's POSSIBLE Agent Carr is a mafia godfather neighbouriser who's lying about the actions to discredit me - with a perfectly-judged delicate touch trusting others to come to the conclusion. Hmm... or maybe not.



Why?

Not that I can sort out.

However, he did say that either Caesar was the one or we believed a false claim. Make of that what you will.

I don't follow.

This whole Carr / Carr thing is getting really confusing.

That's an interesting note. Everything else has been 1 or 3 (or unlimited...?). @Joe, do you have any more abilities?

I do have to say that he claimed JOAT before we knew about Carradice, so he's got that going for him.

This goes down real bad.

Do you doubt that I have the delicate touch required for such a risky maneuver?