oh, deadline's in about 24 hrs

Yeah, I'm starting to see it as a GOG Mafia #78 Regular Japanese Classroom tell, though.

We're risking a no lynch as things stand with about 24 hours to go. Can people give a list of who they would and wouldn't lynch.

I think Lift is Scum

I think my most town order would be:

Telika
Atlo
Dedo
CatsV

If 2 of them are Scum they're very good and I'm probably losing. CatsV I'm in 2 minds over. I'm willing to lynch anyone else but I'd prefer Lift

If everyone could do similar lists we can hopefully form an agreement on an appropriate lynch target

Who da scumz, Joe??

You misplaced the interrogation marks.

Well I'm at a loss.
There are 4 people whom I'm certain of aren't mafia. 2 Whom I dread and paranoid about could be mafia; but don't have anything to back that up -- it's just me playing mind games. And 4 question marks.

The current votees are not that helpful either:

Telikas vote for dedoporno is based on opinion how the townees should behave. (Though the Townee in question has actually taken dedopornos side.)

Lifthrasils vote on supplementscene is based on Scene having, what would amount to, anti-town ideas. And at the time ''That is the best lead we got''; though I have concluded Scene must/should be town.

Joes vote on Lifthrasil is, best as I can tell... because Lifts behaviour seemed weird. (?)

supplementscenes vote on Lifthrasil is based on Lifts behaviour during the Day1 lynching.

---

So apart from 2 players viewing Lift scummy (an opinion that the rest of the class does not seem to share) there's not really much going on in that department.

---
The way things are currently going -- we are going straight for a non-lynch. :<

Yeah, I haven't advanced much.

I believe Scanj/Yogs to be towwn. I also kinda believe Catven to be town : their super moralistic defense of Lifth and outrage at my questioning would be odd, and way too cynical, if scum. And Catve doesn't strike me as cynical to the extreme (plus, cynicism is a doggie trait according to Diogenes).

But they are my only townies. That's seven mafiosi left.

Catte and Joe both give me a suspiciously low impression of participation and scumhunting. Joe had excuses for his absence, but his presences aren't much contructive either. I'd like to know why Yogs signles out Catte and gives Joe a pass.

Scene, I already listed my issues with him. They're... almost too numerous, which freaks me out since Frost. But I don't like that sort of hesitancy, which leads to a paradoxical negation of scumtells. But yet, the Atlo thing doesn't not-make-sense. Again, especially after Frost.

Scumhunting is also townhunting - we have to sort out who is town and who is scum, and we do it by elimination (crossing out supposed townies from the list). So, the arguments against a townie certification are a big object of suspicion for me. Meaning : Scene (not bolded, he's already mentionned above), Dedo, Buck, they smell scummy. I'm especially suspicious of arguments life "self-certification is not an important power" and "mafia won't target a certified townie, they prefer shot in the darks on other potential power roles".

Lifth I can see scum as well, although he shifted to town for clear cut townie mason position. So I may be stuck in a confirmation bias (investment syndrome, cost of backtracking, hope of validation). But also, ...also nothing. I had a very wrong feeling about him when it came to the sequence of votes against Frost, and I don't get this feeling in my re-reads (I even disagree with my own notes).

Scene wrote about Lifth :

My re-read was :

Lifth defended Frost about Joe's random vote (defending Frost on that is scummy, Lifth did it in a non-committal way that I tend to associate to scum discretion but could also be townie cautiousness).
Lifth voted Frost on silly grounds (Frost's joke, but also Lifth defended Frost when Frost voted based on Joe's joke).
THEN -a post I had missed in my notes- he added other reasons to his vote (post 134 about Frost's vote-hopping).
And his vote stayed till the end (god I love my telikatron forumafiavision votoscope display).

Now Scen accuses Lifth on the ground that Lifth didn't express suspicion to anyone else than Frost. i have to check if it's true, but if it is... it doesn't seem very exceptional and worthy of singling out, in this game, unless I'm mistaken.

So, I'd like clarifications -by Scene and Joe- on the reasons to accuse Lifth. Again, I'm all for Lifth to turn out mafia, it would make me feel super clever with my help post psychoanalysis. I'm mentally all primed for that. But... right now Lifth feels somewhat solid to me, which rotates my suspicion towards Joe and Scene.

Atlo, I don't have much against him, apart from the late wagonning against Frost (while openly claiming to consider Frost innocent). I find it very suspiciously lamistic, but it can be rationalized as a nolynch avoidance. My opinion is that people who claimed to not suspect Frost were themselves mafia, because anyone who didn't have a Pooka proof of Frost being townie would have suspected him to be mafia at this point. But this opinion of mine is false : half the people who didn't vote for Frost are people I consider town (Scanj, and, well, AmbitionZ). So, I can't base a read on that.

Okay, means that Atlo and Lifth are also leaning town, for me ? Feels odd. I've spent so much time imagining them to be scumbuddies.

TLthereforeDR:

Current listy list.

TOWN Frost!
TOWN Telika!
TOWN AmbitionZ!
TOWN Yogs
TOWN Catv
TOWN Atlo?
TOWN Lifth?
MAFIA Joe
MAFIA Scene
MAFIA Buck
MAFIA Catte
MAFIA Dedop

Twelve. So. We just carpet bomb Joe, Scene, Buck, Catte and Dedop, and we should be fine. Possibly probably. (Merica fuck yeah.)

I actually don't disagree with this. The scum have to be somewhere and some slots just don't make that much sense. Technically I have reasons to Town-read most if not all but obviously that can't be true so by PoE (Process Of Elimination) I starting from the ones who's reasons are the flimsiest.

I gave Joe credit for being away so much that it likely hurt his team. I don't think scum!Joe would just abandon his buddies like that but maybe IRL was too intense and did take priority after all.

I gave Catte credit because Town!Joe said sometime at the beginning of the game that just one post from Catte was enough to tell he [Catte] is Town. And as we said he's not too active which usually tends to be boring Town Catte but by his own admission scum!Catte is aware of that and maybe is just skating around.

I gave buck credit for that derp clear about not knowing scumchat was public domain knowledge but a recent post of scene made me aware that a bunch of people didn't read the rules so technically that mistake can be made by scum who went along with Frost because he didn't know better. Scum!buck saw brilliant post about it and went along to both buddy up to me and extract he benefits of being backed by a Townie.

To me scene is basically the same thing as Frostburn - an unintentional red herring. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't feel comfortable pushing there - it's too easy.

I know I'm not scum but the rest of your list mostly makes sense so I'll take it.

I'm not sure about Atlo and Lift, especially the latter. He's been too quiet and I don't know what to make of that. I've seen Lift allow Townies do their thing because it was wrong but I can't be sure it's the same thing now. If Atlo is scum he's doing a pretty decent job and I think scene has to be scum with him which I don't see.

About 17 hours left in the game now, and the two leading wagons are Lift and Scene. So far I have read Lift as town this game and I have yet to see anything that makes me feel different, so I would have voted for Scene between the two of them if it wasnt for the PR claim. The claim being so far away from hammer risk I am inclined to beleive him. I of course don't want the no-lynch but I can't confidently choose between either of them at this moment, but if push comes to shove I would jump on a scene wagon before a Lift wagon and just hope Scene is a dirty liar.


I just dont see how self-certification is a complete game-changer when its all subjective to WHO is the certified townie.
A certified town player can get an incorrect read on a game just as any other player, so the only benefit of a confirmed alignment player is you can say for certain that their opinions are either logical or misguided but no longer deceitful.

Maybe I havent played long enough to see the other way around but the PR argument just makes sense to me. Confirmed or not, WHY would the Mafia target a VT specifically in a game known to have power roles out there. Especially the night cycle right after that VT gets "certified" any protector type role is going to gravitate towards that VT so the PRs will be even more likely to get hit. If I am mafia im not concerned about the VT that I can possibly fool through clever posting, im concerned about the cop whose investigation is a lot harder to talk my way out of. THAT is who I would be throwing my bullets at.

Telika is giving me the most town feels at the moment, which also means that I'll put some stock into his Mafia suspect pool of Joe, Scene, Buck, Catte, and Dedo....

I really want to believe that Csan was town, and Yog inherits this as his replacement. He's also completely new for me, so I also want him to stick around some more.

Catte is using Jiji as his avatar even though our theme doesn't involve cats at all. >.>
I don't know if he's trying to signal to me that he's just a friendly town cat that I don't want to lynch or if he's mafia trying to get an edge over me. HIs lurky behavior does make him hard to read. For this reason, I am going to have to defer to everyone else.

The most important thing right now is that we pick someone (preferably mafia) and not have the day end in a no lynch.


Day 2 now ends on 6th November, 6PM UTC+1 (London time) unless it's necessary to re-extend. Because Daylight Savings Time in the United States ends Sunday at 2am Sunday, this means that Day 2 will ends as follows for those of us in the United States:
* Eastern: 12 noon
* Central: 11am
* Mountain 10am
* Pacific: 9am

I got lost at the shops. So cold. :(


Borrowing Telika's list:

blimp

Ahem, let me try that again.

I got lost at the shops. So cold. :(

Borrowing Telika's list:

Catte - Super Town
AmbitionZ - Super Town
Frost - Super Town
Telika - probs town
Yogs - would vote
Catv - probs town
Atlo - probs town
Lifth - probs town
Joe - probs town
Buck - probs town
Dedop - would vote
Scene - would vote



When do you remember me using anything other than a cat for an avatar? It's been years.

I should just point out that UTC+1 is not London time as BST ended last weekend. So for anyone also in the UK, the deadline is actually 5pm on Sunday.