Sorry I'm late, I was out for a work end of (academic) year celebration last night. Catching up now.

Are you expressing surprise at their choice or seriously suggesting this might have been a non-mafia NK?

This is a lot of speculation that it might not be a scum kill. Do you both know something I don't?

This feels like scum who didn't get their NK trying to rolefish a protective role or vig out.

This does not make much sense. We established yesterDay that you are a rolestopper and not a roleblocker. There is a chance of preventing a town action happening to your target (like say cop) but I think the possibility of preventing a kill is more important.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


He has claimed a role and is alive. His claimed role may not give a concrete info but it still gives info that may be useful. Also, the information he gives may be used to confirm or condemn him. Let me turn around the question - can you go into your thought process that leads you to not want RW to reveal his action?


Same way how? I just posted some information I copied from a wiki about the game the green tentacle is from as we were trying to figure out if babark's claim made sense flavor-wise. I didn't intend it to be read "Yo, this checks out! Back off!". I haven't plaid the game and I have no idea if the claim makes sense and was hoping that some else can make something out of it. I still am if that counts as feeling the same way.


To be honest I'm not sure what it means. Her way of participating continues to throw me off and I'm not sure what is supposed to be telling. I thought I saw inconsistencies that were being covered by the lost new player facade but Dessimu made me question my read and I continue not understanding what's she going for. To the point where it might be a derpclear. I'm also considering her being Neutral as I'm not sure who she would be scum with.

Thank you! By the way, you wanted me to answer some question that I missed. I asked you to quote it or re-word it as I still have no idea which one is it. In case you're still interested in it, please point me in the correct direction.


Does it look like a sensible kill to you? We have 2 claimed PRs and a couple of widely Town-read players. Dessimu was not only among the middling players but he was also one of the slot that didn't vote for buck on D1. I also don't think he ever hinted at having any role in a way that would make the scum intentionally decrease the slots that they can hide among hoping they'll take out a strong role. Or maybe it's me who doesn't know something that others do.

To me it feels like anything but. If Dessimu had flipped a role then I would have agreed and thought they have rolecopped him or something but under the current circumstances I find it a strange choice.

Strange choice perhaps, but not strange enough to give me a reason to think it isn't the mafia NK. Dessimu - as shown in the last game - has good instincts. It's not exactly unheard of to choose NKs based on the player instead of the role. I'm not saying you can't be right, just that it's interesting yours and Joe's minds went straight for that.

I haven't said it's not a scum. It could be. I said it makes no sense to me as a scum kill so there is a chance it's not.

A) roughly in order of preference. Maybe RW and dedo are equal.


B) I guess no.

This is only true if lack of parity change can be guaranteed. In our case, it's not known

First off, I did use my ability...just saying...

I will reveal the result today, but frankly it's far more useful to contradict someone's claim than necessarily prove anything. Revealing what I did early would just allow scum to claim around it. I will say this much. I did not investigate Babark, so cannot confirm or deny that claim. The reason should be obvious. I think the way he flubbed his role reveal means he's definitely Town. If he's not, it's the best acting job I've ever seen. You can't invent revealing Roleblocker and thinking you are protecting someone, then to notice it is really Rolestopper and it might work that way.

As to Hyper's question about Razza. I read it completely differently. It certainly does not look Town to me. It looks like someone coming out after an unusual NK designed to frame a Townie with a PR. It's clear what Razza is alluding to. One of Dessimu's last posts was about Dess coming after me for getting the Babark wagon really going and being wrong. This is starting to make me think it was a mafia kill and they thought they could leverage it to get me lynched today.

Suffice it to say, Razza is my top choice. Catte from the day 1 off voting and aloofness is second. Joe is third given his inexplicable late vote for Dedo and still trying to get Babark lynched after his reveal. Something just seems off to me about Joe. Maybe its a crazy conspiracy theory but it almost seems to me he is trying to get himself lynched. Bragging rights if I'm right...
Even day Jester?

Just that info is info. If the mafia know there is a rolestopper I'd have thought they could easily avoid claiming anything that could be contradicted by a rolestopper, so not sharing the info won't help.

But also this mafia apparently chose to kill outlier vanilla over town core or claimed power role so maybe it is best to hold on to it.


Annnnddd if the rolestopper can't stop the kill it kinda does make sense to not use the role.

Dess got those quotes where Babark was saying about why would no-one have protected Frostburn Night 1?
there
and I thought those questions don't look right. So I wanted Babark to tell me about them, and I voted to put pressure on those answers.
Now that I remember this happening I would like to know the answer still, so Babark: why'd you ask

^ those questions?

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- no nothing in particular linked dedo and dessimu. I just mentioned them both because from my list of "most likely for my reason for town-reading them to be wrong" I thought they were the my most uncertain town reads.

but yeah this is right.


I was wondering if a mafia rolestopper could have made the same mistake, probably not.

I considered that. "Maybe" that's some sort of planned claim and Babark slipped and read his actual role. If a media roleblocker gets tracked and caught they then claim something like rolestopper to explain what they were doing. But then why is the roleblocker on the person night killed? And if not there to kill Frost, how did he die? I can't imagine both mafia went after the same target.

Thus, this remote possibility is really a non-possibility. Babark is Town and what he claims.

---------

The big thing today is the surprising NK. Not who anyone expected, and my first reaction was it was somehow a Town action. But with Babark claiming not to have used his power, where is the mafia kill? I know, I can think of a way, but...

That makes it being intentional more likely. As I said previously, I've seen scum get the wrong idea someone has a PR from something they said. The other angle, and the one I now think is true, is that they think a particular kill guides the next lynch away from them.

Enter post #750...
Especially the first part...

"hi folks! i'm back, just reading through the thread. i see dessimu was NK- i'm gonna do some looking back on their last few posts and recap for myself to see who they were looking into and get back to y'all a bit later."

Who posts that they are going to specifically only go back to Dessimu's last few posts to see who he suspects? Do you really believe Razza doesn't know exactly what is contained in those few posts and who they point the finger at?

To me, this all points to why Dessimu was killed. They thought that by killing Dess they could shift today's narrative to one of his last suspects and be safe.

Dessimu's late posts of interest containing people he suspected:
Post #694: "If Babark flips town, I am calling for your head, RWarehall. You have been warned."
Post #705: "Rolestopper almost makes sense. Either mafia has Strongman, or this Rolestopper by Lift's design doesn't protect from kills, or Babark is Mafia"
Post #720: "These quotes I had in mind. I missremembered their timing. Do they make sense with Town!Babark rolestopper?"
Post #729: "I would vote Joe now"

The useful part is if Razza flips scum, it probably clears Joe. I find that a little surprising given the scummy vibes I've been getting. And yes, Joe feels off to me too, just that especially Day 2, we needed to reduce that smaller pool. In fact, that no-lynch was quite good from my viewpoint. We cleared Babark (IMHO) making the pool drop by 1 AND didn't have to kill a Townie to do it. That's a win-win-loss, the loss being the unfortunate PR reveal. Still a decent day.

And no, I still don't see how post #752 makes Razza Town. Notice how Razza's defense all involves a pairing with me and how that wouldn't make sense in killing Dess. And if Razza's remaining partner is someone else?

I'm convinced.

Vote Detective Razza

P.S. Maybe we can get to the point a little quicker this game day?

I am inclined to think that razza's naivety is genuine. I can imagine what her face is gonna be if it turns out that I'm wrong about this.

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Can we all do a challenge?

You have to name three players; the first is "If I had a vig shot now and I had to hit scum or lose the game" who would you shoot?
The other two (you can't name yourself) are "If I have to bestow vote immunity for the rest of the game on two players, who do I choose?" So if you give a scum vote immunity you lose the game.
Don't explain your reasoning initially, but if anyone asks you about your choices you should explain as best you can.

If you name a town with your first choice, or a scum in either of your other two, then you forfeit your right to win with your team this game.

Go!

Mine are:
1 Dedoporno
2 HypersomniacLive
3 RWarehall

*wince and submit*

hum.

but they lost their goon Day one. So if they both have powers (assuming there's two) one is going to have to forgo using their power in order to make the kill...

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scum!razza means town joe because you're assuming razza's about to start saying we should take Joe to lunch based on Dess' final post of the day? Or something else?



Has anyone experienced a player getting voted out based on the suspicions of a Night Killed player?

I think scum might take the "and killing Dess would look bad for X" into consideration, but I can't imagine they base their whole play around it: that would be pushing the limits of naivety too far.

1) in reference to post #740 “she+catte” so i’m assuming ZFR believes myself and catte are working together.

2) no-offence taken xD i think the way i was viewing it is that people that are on to them and maybe talking a little bit too much in terms of getting evidence against scum. i know it seems a little obvious, but on D2 where there’s only 2 mafia left- it seems like a valuable game plan to get rid of someone looking into scum potentiality, just to quieten the town a little, but that’s probably a very close minded and straightforward approach to NK.

^^ i do agree though, my genuine naivety is becoming comical.

i wasn’t online at the end of D2, i made my vote and then had to leave work so i wasn’t able to see the remaining posts- i skimmed when i returned and then stated i would go back and have a thorough read of who could have been in Dessimu’s sights and base a theory off of that.
(which, by the way, was you- based on your role claim at the end of D2)
also, i don’t know about y’all but i definitely don’t remember the exact details of people’s insights from two days ago- i have to go back and read it again.

i have some information i want to look into, based on my ability use during the second night.
i don’t want to claim but i’ll say it’s time to see who HSL (and Dessimu) were accusing at the end of D2.
^^ think about what my role could be from that.