I am currently catching up and hoping to come back with some insight. I shall return in a little while since I don't see too many posts since I was last caught up.

And I see Lift prodded me like 10 minutes ago, around the time I started reading. Great! Now I'm one of those people. >.>

I am so sorry to hear. :( Wishing you the best.

I already stated that I'm having a hectic week and am busy packing because I am moving to the opposite coast of the country. You are starting to sound desperate to lay the foundations for a case against just about anyone in the event a wagon is forming on you.

Human speech and sounds are really fascinating. Like, do people do this all the time? What? That's crazy! Do I do this? I don't even know! And I love knowing things!

Thanks for the condolences, appreciated. Unfortunately, I got some worrying news after the service, which is taking its toll on my mind. Even worse, I've got another heads up - it's very likely that the news situation will affect my Monday availability in some (major) way, unfortunately I won't know before Monday morning. I'll do my best to get as much done until (my) Sunday evening/night.

I did some reading while on the road, and have a few questions I'd appreciate answers to:

@babark, you had mentioned in the past that before playing here, you used to play very quick werewolf games; have you played any (forum or otherwise) mafia/werewolf games in the time you last played here and joining this game? If yes, what type of games were they?


@JoeSapphire, would you say that your experience on MU and the Championship has changed/influenced the way you approach this game, and if so, in what way?


@Dessimu, besides time constrains, would you say that you missing D1 is affecting your game-solving to a significant degree? Some of your posts seem to indicate that you haven't fully read D1. Are you planning to? Have you done any of the ISOs you wanted to do, and if yes, what did you get out of them?


@detective_razza, would you say that your style is to sit at the sidelines and observe what's happening in the thread, and then form opinions and cast votes based on what you've observed? How to you deal with the most likely scenario that mafia are driving the narrative, hence leading the town astray, when the latter falls silent?


I'm worried seeing some PoEs that feel a bit too easy.


I've got some notes to put into posts, but have to deal with a couple of things first; will be back in a couple of hours at the latest.

Or was unable to?


Did I say that? I have no memory of it. I've played Mafia sporadically since I played here, but they were all real life games that took place at game nights with friends.

I am uncertain whether I am willing to move my vote from Razza, barring an emergency at the end of the day and the risk of a NL.

Joe is quite fascinating as a candidate. Wilder than yogy, sassies than Kryps, more flamboyant than flub. I'm sure I can squeeze some adaliabooks somewhere in there. Anyway. This means I don't know what to make of him. I think he's sus, but only because he seems such a meta dependent player for a third person read. My limited experience with him is showing. It's not that I'm unwilling to vote him, but he's just not my top pick.

Baba is a bit more active, but I don't find much substance in what he's saying. The whole sage schpeal with "I don't speculate wildly or whatever" (obviously paraphrasing with some flavor added) doesn't appeal to me. Like, yeah, the beginning of most Mafia games are not for certain things and you're pulling at ridiculous, sometimes irrational straws, but it's how the game is played until further info. And it's how info is gathered. The lack of even the slightest detailed analysis of anything is giving me pause. Not my top candidate, but he's in line with being sus like on D1. Would not mind switching vote to him in the event of preventing NL.

Catte(lady?). What a glorious player. I have no idea who they are or what their schpeal is, but they seem fun. I believe I was unsure about them on D1. I am not very certain today either, but judging by interactions with others, depending on today's flip I might glance something more. I don't quite see a wagon forming on them though, at least not yet, and unlike with Buck, I'm not sure I can be persuaded to jump early and build one on them necessarily.

Dessimu. I feel like I know you, but at the same time I don't know you. I've probably seen you around. Anyway. The substitution changes dynamics a bit. I am uncertain if Cthulhu's push for Frost was really ill intentioned. Frost's push for me could have been construed in the same way in the event of my flip (and in hindsight of theirs), so D1 convictions aren't a most incriminating thing for me yet. I shall give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Razza is continuously suspicious. Initially I voted to just prod some answers, but as her posts kept trickling in, I can't shake the feeling that they're either not paying attention as much as they should (akin to Buck), or that they're playing a game of deceit. I am most confident in leaving my vote on them for now and I'd say they're my top candidate for the lynch today.

The rest are either solidly town, such as HSL, or pretty much in that spectrum, so, barring any new developments, I wouldn't vote for them at all.

Sorry in advance for my next couple of posts will be wall-ish, but I'd like to get things out before I call it a night so that we may discuss things tomorrow.


Were they of quick ones, like taking from a few to several minutes, or longer ones?


Coming back to this and post #300, to get some clarification. Here you speak of aggressiveness, and back then you said that I accuse everyone. To me, and dictionaries I checked, "being aggressive to everyone"≠"accuse everyone". I asked you to provide evidence for the latter, and in this post you say that I ask for evidence on the former, which, based on my understanding of the two, isn't accurate. Do you equate "accuse everyone" with "being aggressive towards everyone"? If yes, can you expand on that understanding of yours? If not, what were you thinking back when you used the phrase "accuse everyone"?

Also, when you voted Ambiti0nZ (to remove what you thought was the second vote on RWarehall), was that a serious vote?



OK, but my question is why were you thinking it if you don't think it's particularly likely?


That's not accurate, actually - you made post #373, where you weighed the existing wagons, and chose RWarehall over Ambiti0nZ, while making clear that you preferred to stay on me and see my wagon go over.


I don't read anysuggestion for NL, conditionally or not. What I took away from that post is that he sees D1 ending up in usual GOG forum mafia D1 fashion, aka NL when little time was left on the clock. And if a Lunch happened, he expects it to be a mislynch, whether it's him or someone else, and the wagon won't lend itself for proper analysis due to the last-minute panic that could (and would) be used as everyone's reason/excuse for being on the wagon.

Does the post ping you independently of reading a NL suggestion, or on top of that?


Also going a bit back to D1:

Did you retain this sense throughout D1? What do you think toDay so far?


What made you think dedoporno may be referring to either of these two pairs, but not one that included himself?


Could you talk about your thought train here, because I don't quite follow.



Is there anything else besides passiveness?


Can you be a bit more specific?


What goes against that theory is the sequence of events - the very first thing I did when I came on for EoD1 (I had made my case the night before), was to put bucktoothgamer into the centre of attention, asking for people to see that his wasn't towny behaviour and vote him. Both yours and RWarehall's vote were the result of me rallying for his lunch, no?


Not sure I follow what exactly makes you feel this way?


If anyone's around, please bump.

I mean if there are any players on your list that you feel confident that their participation/posting will make it evident they're town, or at least not mafia. Right now, the PoE is too large to go through it with lynches, tha's why I asked in my first post of the Day for townies to be obvious townies, so we can clear them. Unfortunately, I can't say it's been the case so far, and the clock's ticking.


I've got thoughts on babark, but first I need to hear that last bit of clarification I asked for.

Noted on Catte, I have to look closely into him before I express thoughts here.

I've got a couple of thoughts on JoeSapphire, but after he answers my questions. Did you follow his MU Championship game at all?

Has anything changed after the couple more interactions with detective_razza? What do you make of her posts #528 and #531? Does the explanation sound convincing/consistent?

Do you find Dessimu to be as proactive and game-solving as he was last game? What about "LordCephy pushed FrostburnPhoenix so hard all of D1, so nah, it can't be scum!LordCephy/Dessimu flipping him at N1"? Or is the Wine too delicious?


Oh, so by special role you just meant PR? Would have been less confusing if you had used PR. And you keep phrasing things in ways that catch my eye - if they're not both scum, is there a way for them both to be goons, and vice versa?


Yes, but as I've said before, the votes to lynch RWarehall weren't there. So, if the votes for bucktoothgamer weren't guaranteed, and they weren't there for him either, I don't follow why or how he'd look better waiting more before placing his vote - at the time he voted (maybe a minute ahead of ZFR?), it was either bucktoothgamer or NL. Perhaps I'm not understanding at all what you're trying to say?


Can you go into why and how scum!detective_razza makes scum!JoeSapphire?


And a couple of things from D1:

Back in post #333 you asked JoeSapphire to elaborate on something he said in post #332. As far as I can see, he didn't, and you didn't go back to it. May I ask why that is?


Had you read my post #394 in full when you quote-replied?



Can you go into a bit of details/specifics on what's off about JoeSapphire? Is it what he says, his tone, something else, what?


Also, from D1:

[emphasis added]

Can you go into the bit I highlighted?


I could use a bump, in case I'm not just talking to myself here. I've got one more, but I promise, it isn't another wall.

When you do these, could you, please, try and give at least some of the thoughts/observations you had that led you to lean each person a certain way? For instance, you say you're a little suspicious of JoeSapphire, I'd like to know what about him seems suspicious. As the game progresses, vibes and gut feelings can't be enough.


And from D1:

But that wasn't your point, so why did you phrase it like this?


dedoporno had asked you during D1 too, and you didn't answer - how exactly does unvoting me prove anything? You insisted for three posts that you were in the right, even after I told you that my ISO doesn't support your claim, and it took another post of mine asking you to go check before you actually did, and only then admitted you were wrong. I'd expect a townie to self-check after the first time they're told they're wrong?



I still have to go through RWarehall's posts in a bit more detail, but I'm way too tired to do it now (I'm barely keeping my eyes open). Will do that tomorrow as early as possible.


@all, can everyone, please, post what their PoE is? I think we should have a discussion on that tomorrow. I know tomorrow is Sunday, and we all probably have other things we'd like to do instead, but as I said, I may not make it Monday at all. Thank you, and goodnight.

I was asked for a Day extension for RL reasons. Which I have chosen to grant.

The Day is extended to Tuesday evening MEST

In this way, D2 is still shorter than D1 was, but everyone can participate in the end of Day discussion.

Hey gys, sorry for being away. I just got home after a ling day and a big dinner wtih friends. I'm a bit tipsy so I'll be with you tomoerrow. I saw HSL has some stuiff direterd to me but I'm not able toa ddress them right now. Tomorrow I'll be here though. Goodnight!

^^ as the game progresses, i hope to find more (and as Ambition stated, pay more attention because i don’t read into things too much). but as of right now, it’s just things like lack of activity or too much activity. i’ll have a better look in the morning and hopefully get some more information for you, though i doubt it will change your mind on anything i say. give me a reminder (is it called a bump?) in the morning to remind me, because i will probably forget.

the overall point to my argument against you on D1 was that you were questioning Frost less than everyone else (i originally stated that it you questioned them only once, however i was wrong and was mistakimg Frost and Ambition up- as they were both arguing with ZFR). just because you didn’t ask Frost at all (in comparison to my original remark of saying you only questioned them once in comparison to everyone else), that still proves the point that you were questioning Frost less than everyone else.

i removed the vote because i wanted to put my hands up and admit that i’d made a mistake in my evidence collecting, thus hoping people would see i don’t just flog faulty evidence and hope for the best.

The ones I playe IRL with friends? I don't think they lasted more than 20 minutes for the whole thing.

Being aggressive might not be the same as accusing everyone, but accusing everyone I would certainly see as an aggressive act. What I meant was what (I perceived) you did, basically list out everyone, point out why they were scummy, and put the onus on them to "prove themselves" by following your orders and answering you, or else they would be scummy.

My switch to AmbitionZ was not a serious one.

> While not a bad thing to kick back and observe, I am fairly certain it is safe to say, that every player - both town and mafia - are doing exactly that, some posting more than others in between. So, the more you wait and look, the more detailed observations we expect. No results produce suspicion. If you are town, it is damaging for Town. Because people eventually look unfavorably upon those, who "wait" and naturally, tend to pick sides from among the big talkers. The less townies speak, the more influence mafia gets simply by numbers. And to make something pop, it helps to blow the bubbles first.
So, Razza, Babark, Catte (I suppose) - got something to suggest? :)
> Looks like Ambition is busy rl. Otherwise, look at quality of their fewer posts.

Hey, long time no see. Who are your suspects toDay? Would it sound absolutely bonkers if I said I could vote you, because your avatar looks evil? xD

1 > Take it easy, one step at the time. It is fun to play with you, but rl comes first. Hope things work out or actions can be taken to deal with them.
2 > I have not yet fully read D1. I am planning to, doing so little by little. I have not done ISOs that I wanted to yet. Right now my judgement is based on the way I generally see game progressing, more based on D2. I am indeed very busy, but...to be honest, I don't think it affects my game a lot. I am not all over the place like I was last game. Having answered your questions, I gotta say the player that surprised me the most, was actually LordCephy, who I am subbing for. Before stepping in, I guessed that Cephy was mafia and if I subbed for someone else, I would have voted Cephy same way I stuck on Catte last game. At this point, all I can say, is that if I subbed for Cephy D1, I would have taken different action. Don't know how I would have acted towards Frost though.
3 > What does PoE stand for in this case? I made a mistake googling "PoEs" and the meaning (while funny), did not relate to game at all.

Are you role fishing? Because I am not answering that.

1 > Catte is indeed a great player. As mafia, proved hard to get and has a capacity for flipping tables around. All I can say, is be careful with Catte.
2 > LordCephy's push for Frost was unfortunately, misguided. I am fairly certain Cephy believed in what he said, and believed to be on to scum. But can't say anything else.
3 > I am kinda pointing at ZFR here, as he was first to ponder this. While HSL looks solidly town in my book and not getting a vote any time soon... Imagine a situation, where scum!HSL gets solid Town cred from D1 and wins the game for mafia xD

The questions you give here to Joe, kinda makes it hard not believe Joe is scum. Need to ISO Joe. Although can't compare Joe, the Pirate with Joe, the Potter, as it looks like MU has brought new things to his gameplay. Exciting.

I know this is for Dedo to answer. But from my perspective, I feel like I have to remind all - this time around I am busy with work every day, both in job, and at home and added extra projects that I have to see through. My much lower level of participation should not be taken as alignment indicative. Everything I say though - feel free to judge every which way.

In GOG forum, if you make a second post within 10 minutes since your first post, both posts will merge into one and will be marked as "Edited". In the game, editing of any kind goes against the rules. Since we often can not clarify that posts merged by accident, it is up to you to prevent that. Therefore, if you have a lot to say, like HSL did, and no patience or time to wait 10 minutes to post again, you can ask for a Bump. HSL asked for bump straight in his own posts. You can also ask for a bump in a game registration or Mafia Administration thread. If anyone is around to see it, they may make a post with word "Bump" in it, thus, helping you to avoid merging your posts or helping you to cut the waiting time.
P.S. if you want to edit some mistake from your previous post, you do so by writing new post, and stating "EBWOP" (which stands for Edit By Way Of Post"). Hope this helps

What is role fishing? LIke, trying to find out your role?
I don't specifically care about your specific role, just wondering as to the setup where an obvious NK went ahead and happened in front of everyone, and the implications of that.

Yes. And alright.