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Engerek01: You see a blink of lightning in Bess's eyes. She rises her both heads with pride

"We... are... NOT... cows...."
That's right, y'all are like Cows 2.0, the next evolution if you will.

(That's a compliment btw, Bess :D)

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(Bump needed)
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ZFR: I was going to wait for Koro to appear, but I don't believe I should.

Vote catte
Why so impatient(or seemingly so)?

Why not wait until Korotan has checked in and answered some things(like a reply to the wagon against them, if they're medic, the robot crawling up a** thing, etc)? o.0 :)

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This post is also a prod/ping to Korotan

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(Also note I will be going off to do IRL business in less than 2 hours.....so if anyone wants to ask me/everyone anything or say anything that they want everyone to read and/or reply to, now's the time. Else I won't be back for several hours after that)
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two ultra- mutants down. But there was still a kill at night. So the danger isn't over yet. You deliberate, but this time it doesn't seem so easy. So, in absence of proof, it's back to accusations. While the ugly day goes on, slowly the votes pile up.
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vote count
Catte 1 - ZFR 1380
Korotan 2 - Catte 1320, GH 1322

Not voting: korotan, hunter, engerek, bucktooth, flubb
It takes 5 votes to lunch and korotan is in the lead

Deadline is on Sunday
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ZFR: Really?
This is just a direct post to make sure you get a ping so you can check out the post above(1382), which is (mainly) to you.

(I used the window for my prior post to ping korotan, ya see....in hindsight I guess I should've pinged korotan in THIS post and made the other post direct to you, but eh)
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my name is vaughlte catte: You're right. But the idea of btg being scum and using a power on the same target as dedo seems even less likely than a Level 2 ruse from you, at least to my mind. btg is "cleared" but moreso than you even.
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ZFR: Really? I can easily think of a scum role that targets the same player who gets NKed. Off the top of my head: Watcher. I can see scum NKing an X and at the same time Watching him to see they catch more PRs that way. If I think longer I bet I could think of a few more.

But anyway, let's assume that scum!btg's role get absolutely no benefit whatsoever from targeting the same player who got NKed. Why aren't you assuming, like in my case, that it's a ruse done to gain credibility on the off-chance he get watched/tracked?

So you believe that scum team wasting TWO shots (mine, perhaps permanently, and trent's) solely for the purpose of getting credibility on the off chance we get tracked/watched doesn't earn me "cleared", but scum team wasting one shot (btg's) solely for the purpose of getting credibility on the off chance he get tracked/watched does. btg is more cleared then me?
Still seems less likely to me. The whole point of the ruse is that you gain heaps of credibility in exchange for the wasted shots. The btg thing doesn't strike me as a ruse to gain credibility. I had already conceded that it's highly unlikely that you're scum and that I would be concentrating my efforts elsewhere, but you seem to have a real obsession with this.

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ZFR: I was going to wait for Koro to appear, but I don't believe I should.

Vote catte
Well that says it all really doesn't it? You had already decided you were voting for me regardless of what korotan says, so why were you even waiting? You're too proud of your trap to admit its flaws and the rest is OMGUS because I haven't 100% cleared you. Never mind the fact that I think it's so unlikely you're scum that the possibility can essentially be disregarded, you will accept no less than CLEARED.
hahaha, no it's nothing like this. I already said I accept the possibility my trap wasn't foolprof. I accepted the possibility that you could be Town who made an honest mistake, but your reaction makes me think it's not that.

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my name is vaughlte catte: Never mind the fact that I think it's so unlikely you're scum that the possibility can essentially be disregarded,
Stop making this as if I'm obsessed about semantics and whether I'm "cleared" or not.

The above line is just not true. Had you written that the possibility of me can essentially be disregarded, I'd have not brought this up at all today. The whole reason of me bringing this up is because you didn't say the possibility being scum can be disregarded (regardless of whether you call it cleared or not).

Prove me wrong, show me where you have written, before today, that "the possibility (of me being scum) can essentially be disregarded". Doesn't have to be in these words. Doesn't have to use the word "clear".
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ZFR: hahaha, no it's nothing like this. I already said I accept the possibility my trap wasn't foolprof. I accepted the possibility that you could be Town who made an honest mistake, but your reaction makes me think it's not that.

Stop making this as if I'm obsessed about semantics and whether I'm "cleared" or not.

The above line is just not true. Had you written that the possibility of me can essentially be disregarded, I'd have not brought this up at all today. The whole reason of me bringing this up is because you didn't say the possibility being scum can be disregarded (regardless of whether you call it cleared or not).

Prove me wrong, show me where you have written, before today, that "the possibility (of me being scum) can essentially be disregarded". Doesn't have to be in these words. Doesn't have to use the word "clear".
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my name is vaughlte catte: All the medic could confirm was that they targeted ZFR with their healing ability, it says nothing of ZFR's alignment. ZFR is probably town, but the medic has nothing to do with that.
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my name is vaughlte catte: Well it's not impossible that he actually targeted you trusting that a medic would come and heal you, but I agree it's unlikely.
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my name is vaughlte catte: While I'm happy to focus the search for scum elsewhere because of probability, I do not accept you as mechanically cleared. It's semantics really, I'll call you "cleared" if it makes you happy.
The turning point was when you pointed out Joe had seen trent visit you. Since then my position hasn't changed: It's not impossible but it's unlikely and that I would be looking elsewhere for scum. I even called you "cleared" which I pretty much defined as cleared by probability instead of mechanics.
This is all you've written on the topic of me being cleared. None of this sounds like you're saying that the possibility of me being scum can be disregarded.

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my name is vaughlte catte: Yeah, you're not cleared as far as I'm concerned.
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my name is vaughlte catte: That aside, I refuse to rule out the possibility that it's a ruse and that scum!trent infected scum!ZFR in order to capitalise on the sort of assumption you're making right now. I don't think it's likely but I'm not going to act like it's impossible.
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ZFR: This is all you've written on the topic of me being cleared. None of this sounds like you're saying that the possibility of me being scum can be disregarded.

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my name is vaughlte catte: That aside, I refuse to rule out the possibility that it's a ruse and that scum!trent infected scum!ZFR in order to capitalise on the sort of assumption you're making right now. I don't think it's likely but I'm not going to act like it's impossible.
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ZFR:
Right, and all I'm doing is making a distinction between impossible and highly unlikely.
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my name is vaughlte catte: While I'm happy to focus the search for scum elsewhere because of probability, I do not accept you as mechanically cleared. It's semantics really, I'll call you "cleared" if it makes you happy.
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my name is vaughlte catte:
Oh come on. "unlikely X is scum" and "X is probably Town" is not in the same category as "possibility of X being scum can be disregarded".

The third quote was made today after I brought the subject up.
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my name is vaughlte catte: ...
OK, at this point this is just going in stupid circles. Do you agree it's best to just drop this subject then?

My vote stands. Completely putting aside the whole "cleared/not cleared" issue I still think it's best to lynch you today.

This is not "you just want to lynch me and made up your mind already" vote. Believe me I did a complete reread of you with a devil advocate's mindset.
I'm not voting you at all costs just to prove my "trap" was right. When D1 I was sure I caught blotunga on a slip I admitted I was wrong the next (calendar) day when he made his reply and removed my vote.

I'm even think that maybe you didn't fall for my trap (in the sense trent didn't tell you I voted flub because you have no Day Chat), but based on your reaction to my accusation I think you're Mafia.

(there is no point in waiting on Kororan any longer - he'll confirm your action. If you're Town you didn't lie and if you're scum you wouldn't make a lie that can be disproved so eaisly).
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ZFR: Oh come on. "unlikely X is scum" and "X is probably Town" is not in the same category as "possibility of X being scum can be disregarded".

The third quote was made today after I brought the subject up.
My position hasn't changed, this is all semantics. From the point you brought up Joe seeing trent visit you I haven't considered the possibility worth pursuing (my reply to you bringing that up was #1298). Everything since then has just been making the distinction between "not worth pursuing" and Cleared with a capital C.
It's the same distinction I made at the end of D3 when talking about clearing myself:
You said
You "clearing" yourself won't convince me, because (a)there could be another scum, (b) a lone Mafioso might be able to act and kill same night.
and I explained that I didn't mean "clearing", I meant clearing. The thing that I confirmed with Lift last night was that I can "friendly neighbour visit" someone and that the scum version of my role would not be able to (or rather they would visit someone and inform them that they were scum, which would be hilarious).

The point I was making then is that there is a difference between "cleared" (as you defined it) and cleared in the sense that an IC or FN might be, or mechanically cleared.

So to me, you were "cleared" in the sense that you defined it yesterDay, until you pointed out that Joe saw trent visit you at which point I considered a ruse highly unlikely. There is still the possibility you are scum, but I am choosing to focus elsewhere because of how unlikely it is. That's where I've been since #1298 and nothing has changed.
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my name is vaughlte catte: ...
OK
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my name is vaughlte catte: ...
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ZFR: OK, at this point this is just going in stupid circles. Do you agree it's best to just drop this subject then?
Agreed. I was well underway writing my last post when you posted this one.

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ZFR: My vote stands. Completely putting aside the whole "cleared/not cleared" issue I still think it's best to lynch you today.

This is not "you just want to lynch me and made up your mind already" vote. Believe me I did a complete reread of you with a devil advocate's mindset.
I'm not voting you at all costs just to prove my "trap" was right. When D1 I was sure I caught blotunga on a slip I admitted I was wrong the next (calendar) day when he made his reply and removed my vote.

I'm even think that maybe you didn't fall for my trap (in the sense trent didn't tell you I voted flub because you have no Day Chat), but based on your reaction to my accusation I think you're Mafia.
I mean... ok? There's not much I can do to argue against that.

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ZFR: (there is no point in waiting on Kororan any longer - he'll confirm your action. If you're Town you didn't lie and if you're scum you wouldn't make a lie that can be disproved so eaisly).
You're correct. That's why I wondered why you were ever waiting for him.

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my name is vaughlte catte: ...
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ZFR: OK
OK
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ZFR: OK
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my name is vaughlte catte: OK
Heh, thanks for the bump. I meant to add a new line after this.

OK
I might have had a wrong impression of what you meant then.