So far, I'm liking Lonzi. Fiercely holds her ground, hasn't backed out of anything she said, I'm not shooting her any time soon.

Let me jus draft up a list to help me out and stuff.

Lonzi - Good
SPF - ????
Lift - ????
Laser - ????
Carradice - ????
Cadaver - ????
Cristi - ????
GameRager - ????
Scene - ????

I think I forgot someone. Oh.

Pooka - Sexy

Yeah, I'll fill up this list in batches, so let's go.

SPF - I see him as the voice of reason in this thread, and he's right about not rushing straight away to shoot someone who is by consensus already a lynch. That said, as Carradice does put conveniently, he's controversial, with some players thinking he's not trying to solve the game. I wouldn't blame these players, as SPF can be a sly mafioso, but I don't think he is right now. Gut feeling. I know, cliche, but that's how I read him.

Lift - Surprisingly not all that active, though I wouldn't correlate his activity with his faction. He's likely to be scum or town either way, but the way he reacted to my joke is similar to the way he reacted to Agent in the Harry Potter game, when he was Town. Scene however says his vote is opportunistic, but the more I think about it, the more I tend to believe scene, if only for one reason: Lift is after all a walking WIFOM, and thrives on this playstyle.

Laser - Do I even need t- his fake vig shot reeks of a gambit to clear scene or to draw and waste the vig shot. The motives remain unclear, but when this day started and I claimed, he already wanted me to off him and even proceeded to self vote himself to L-1. Even if he's actually a Townie after all (I highly doubt it), he hasn't done himself any favors with those two moves alone.

Lonzi - Good
SPF - Good
Lift - Mixed
Laser - Bad
Carradice - ????
Cadaver - ????
Cristi - ????
GameRager - ????
Scene - ????

I'll drop the rest later.

OK. So we WON'T risk losing a Day by the use of the Vig power! @all: that means Pooka can use the shooting power without fear of hurting Town. If it succeeds, it's the same as a lynch. If it fails, we have a proven scum that we can still lynch on the same Day if the shot doesn't occur too close to the deadline.

@Lazer: does that reduce your eagerness to be shot? Knowing that it won't lead to Town losing a Day?

And his eagerness to be shot, when it was thought that that could cost Town a Day? I think SPF is right and Laser is the bulletproof scum. Otherwise the way he acted doesn't make sense.

Wrong. Clinging to your wagon IS scum hunting. Scum hunting means lynching the scummiest player. And that is you.

I'm amazed at how the wagon on Laser evaporated. Again. It really seems to be a superpower! Or at least one of your buddies was on your wagon for distancing purpose and used the chance to abandon that wagon at an opportune moment.


I trust Pookie at the moment. But that would change drastically if she doesn't take the shot Today and is still alive Tomorrow. Cadaver is Town in my book. As is SPF.

But I'm very sure that Laser is scum. Most likely the bulletproof scum.

You said once on D1 that you were willing to lynch Laser. Nothing else supports it. I can appreciate not getting back before the lynch, I am in the same boat.

Yes, I really just think Laser is town. If I had only ever played/watched mafia on GOG, I would be right there with everyone pushing for his lynch. I have played a few games on another site. It is quite eye opening on how different people play and what is/is not scummy within different sites. Town often did what I originally found anti-town behavior. Sometimes it hurt town, but more often led to product information.

I also really enjoy watching the championship games on MafiaUniverse since yog's first debut there 4-5 years ago. The dynamics in the championship games are fascinating because players come from so many different backgrounds. My guess, players in a random champions game would be split about Laser play here due to the various cultures.

Could Laser be scum? Of course he could. Scum can take that route, but it's not very productive...baiting people to lynch you. I think Laser plays this way to get reactions. Assuming I am right, I am guessing scum jumps at lynching this. I am trying to gauge between honest townies who think he is scum (my impression of scene) and scum being opportunistic. If I am wrong, not a good look for me.

The speed is actually why I read the interaction town/town. It was off-the cuff and didn't feel forced. I believed scene's reaction, I think he really believed he'd been killed. Laser could have done that as scum, but I see little gain for scum to do that at that time and in that way.

Laser could just be punking us as scum, I doubt it.

This sounds inconsistent with your post on the end of day:

Post 360 shows you are well aware of what Laser had posted. So your claim to have wanted to lynch Laser but didn't appears to be a lie

Lynch all liars @Liftrasil ?

Vote SirPrimalForm

Or I've been roleblocked at night, and I can't use my shot anyway. And nobody will come forward to tell us they did that, because the mafia would know who their 2nd (or even 1st) most valuable target is, and we all lose a role more valuable than "oh I have a supervote that's slightly nerfed."

If it evaporated, I would have shot him. No. What happened is, now I (and only I) get to decide who leaves the game. I also actively shut down the Laser wagon (see me threatening GR with killing him for bringing Laser to L-1), so as not to allow my shot to be wasted. Basically, you're leaving a part of the story out.

Except there is more than one scum player in the game. I'd like to hear your other reads.

Thank you! I will add your corrections and Pookie’s last reads swiftly.

Everyone else is encouraged to send their corrections, so that we have an accurate view of the possible viable bandwagons. The aim is easing negotiations and avoiding a no-lunch.

Also please issue your next list in PNG, higher quality and higher resolution. Preferably big enough to be zoomed into.

No problem. The limit for each archive is 500 Kb. I will try to get a good balance of resolution/quality within that boundary.

So it makes sense for scum to act this way? What does it gain bullet-proof scum to get vigged. Yes, the vig fails today, we loose a lynch. Scum get lynched tomorrow. Where is the sum gain in that for scum?

I got to go for now, but will be able to join in a few hours and should be available the rest of the evening.

Stop boosting your ego. I didn't need your intervention, and town certainly doesn't need an egomaniacal fool like you deciding our fates.

Sorry, what do you mean by *rolebocked at night* exactly? See below, edited for easier check on Mafia roles: I mean only doctor can roleblock you, no?

In place of Mafia I would even *redirect* a day shooter for a kill of most Town Power Role read (I have no idea if there are limitations for this particular case with day shooter, so correct me if needed).

I think it's safe to assume that no shot toDay is a great risk for a waste / a Mafia targeted kill (if redirected), for NK, for you as well (so of us would expect a demonstration). If redirection is possible Mafia could even place it on you already, but I doubt they'd do it without a good target if only they don't care about the roles that much but about certain players.

Ego? What's that? Can I eat it?

Preciseli-ment. The doctor's effect works throughout the Day. If he or she targeted me last night, then my shot is wasted. Now an unfortunate chain of events would be the doctor protects me at night and roleblocks me during the Day, and I shoot someone, but fail. Now half the Townies suspect this someone is the bulletproof and wagon him or her to lynch. So I think it's worth not just jumping straight ahead into a lynch and evaluate if that's our bulletproof guy or if I've been safeguarded.

In what (mafia) universe is self-voting considered not anti-town? You do make some good points though, it's not really helpful or productive play for either faction. Still, I feel like if anyone would have the balls to bait us as scum it would be LASER.

Because it was clearly too late to start that wagon by then, so as I said in the quote - it was for the best that I didn't. There's no contradiction there.

The M-M theory about you and LASER didn't come to me until toDay though.

___

Probably going to be offline for the rest of this evening.

Yes, why would Laser act in that bizarre way if not for reaction and scanning for Town / Mafia. To some extent I can picture Laser as Town, probably that's why ZFR unvoted him yesterDay. If Laser is Town he *saved* Scene on D1 (checked with fake kill > then derp clear him to be precise) to avoid possible waste of Town lynch and... assisted in lynching poor old Micro which of course for some looked liked pure, thought not smart, Mafia.

But I don't get Scene's play at all, I don't understand his logic, his unvote on Micro and quick hammer. Why Laser would go so far to help Scene, why he is reading him as Town. I just can't understand how Scene could be Town. And seeing how some reading him as Town amazes me, if I'm so blind please help me see it from a different perspective.