So... am I getting this right?

Dedo voted trent because trent voted Bookwyrm, who dedo considers to be firm town for some as yet undisclosed reason?

Then Kryspyn voted dedo because he hadn't disclosed the reason he considered Bookwyrm town, in a fashion to draw attention to this non-disclosure of info? And flub did too?

I'm thoroughly confused.

And now RWarehall (presumably) agrees with dedo and thinks he is firm town...

Time to re-read Bookwyrm's posts again and see what the hell is going on...

Well! This has been interesting now, and you guys managed conversation without touching any of the semi-forbidden topics. Congratulations.

dedo and robb's votes seem straight forward to me.

I have several theories on Krypsyn and Flub's votes, but they all contradict each other and I'm not sure which one to go with yet.


This, however, I can address. It seems there are several game-related topics that Shall Not Be Discussed on day 1; seems a little short-sighted to me, but I can work with that. Maybe it will become clear with more experience. So instead, people choose to throw votes around randomly-to-semi-randomly and see whether someone reacts; I'm not very clear on why this works, but maybe its another experience thing.

So here I am:
Statement 1: I should try to avoid lynching any townie. Don't do scum's work for them if you don't have to.
Statement 2: People tend to view frequent vote hopping as scummy.
Therefore: I shouldn't go randomly vote hopping. Look for a reason.
Statement 4: All the literature (heh) around the game indicates that lurking is generally bad for town (Lynch All Lurkers).
Conclusion: Lacking any other leads, selecting a lurker to vote for would be decent play.
Corollary: Selecting the lurkiest player is better than selecting a slight lurker.


I have RL things I need to do today, so I don't currently have time to go back through and try to figure out who I think contributed the least right now. I hope to check back in this evening, but I'm not sure if or when.

Right now I'm considering voting for Trent, but I'm not prepared to slap a third vote on him for two misrepresentations of my statements if I can't keep an eye out for the fallout.

I'm going to throw this out here because I've read all your posts three times now, and I don't see anything that marks you as firm town, no more than anyone else anyway. Having been on the receiving end of this last game I think it might be easier to ask; Bookwyrm, do you know what you said that makes dedo sure you are town?

Right now I'd consider voting on dedo (the whole thing with Bookwyrm stinks and I don't like it), trent (generally scummy behaviour from what I can see) or Krypsyn (even if there's a reason, I still don't like the unexplained vote). With an option on TwilightBard because I'm still not 100% certain of him either.

Who are you 100% certain about??

Me.

That's about it... :P

Ok, let me rephrase that:

I'm less than 50% certain of him.

Is that better?

News! I need to run laundry before I spend the night away from home, so I'm here for awhile longer.

Adalia: I don't know whether there is any one particular thing or not. There is one place where I slipped, but I don't care to say what it is (might not be viewed as a slip and thus might be ignored by scum). I think I'm okay saying I slipped, since I've dropped enough paragraphs that people might latch onto the wrong thing and draw the wrong conclusion.

My possible theories:
1) Dedo is town, and found something either in particular or in aggregate that convinced him I'm town.
2) Dedo is town, and we've just happened to match up ideas enough to make him confident I'm town. This is roughly how I view him (we ended up on the same side of the mechanics discussions earlier; you may recall how I noted some time back that he and I might get linked by our agreement).
3) Dedo is town, and has some other play. I don't know what it is, so obviously I can't extrapolate much further.
4) Dedo is scum, and trying to get me lynched if he goes down. You've already pointed out why this would be a terrible idea on his part. Town can trade scum 1-1 all day and still win. In this game, Town can even trade scum 2-1 and still win (assuming <5 scum). If this is his play, I'm happy to go down with him.
5) Dedo is scum, and so already knows I'm town. This seems to be Flub's theory. Might be Krypsyn's too; he's been exceptionally close-mouthed about the particulars (had me wondering for awhile whether he'd been restricted, he was so terse, but he's dropped paragraphs since then).

Of course, Krypsyn and Flub might just be scum in cahoots with each other. Krypsyn sees an opportunity to nail a town, and Flub catches on when Krypsyn is so openly close-mouthed. There has been more explanation since (from Flub), but I considered this.

I strongly believe so, yes. I'm not saying we share all and the exact same knowledge, but I'm pretty sure we share at least some. RWarehall seems to be picking up. Others should be able, too.


Just to make sure we are on the same page: I'm not sure, but I strongly believe so.

Thank you both.

Having re-read Bookwyrm's posts I'm putting his engagement in the whole mechanics discussion purely down to youthful exuberance (read: he's new ;) ). I haven't seen anything to suggest he is 100% town, but I haven't really seen much to say he is scum. So I'm moving him to leaning town now.

So I'm looking at dedo either using the whole situation as an excuse to place a vote, and rather than going for the more obvious OMGUS vote on Twilight he votes on trent instead, thus also implicating Bookwyrm if he gets lynched and flips scum or he genuinely sees Bookwyrm as almost certain town and thinks trent must be scum for missing it (which is what he has stated). I have dedo slightly leaning scum as I think his involvement in the mechanics discussion may end up being more detrimental to town than Bookwyrm's was, but not enough to place a vote right now. I kind of see him as Lift was to me last game (that is coming across very scummy but just due to a different angle / play style than me)

I'm leaning towards a vote on trent, just because after rereading he seems to have been quite aggressive towards others and overly defensive when questioned; but as he has a couple of votes already I'd rather here more for him before pushing his wagon any further.

I'd still like a proper explanation of what the hell Krypsyn and flub were doing...

Hmmm - i think i see what you're picking up on, but its a little tenuous. But, its the little things that make all the difference. It has him leaning towards town, yes

I feel the same, Book is leaning town, but it pretty much confirms Dedo if you think about it.

I gave it a day to see if anyone else saw the same thing as you that makes Bookwyrm almost surely town, and it seems the answer is no. So what is it everyone seems to be missing?

Sounds like you agree in that his play has been scummy, but you know something that makes him town. You even said you saw it coming that someone was going to place a vote on Bookwyrm, and that he put himself into a situation where a vote on him may be seen as a very decent step but only if you don't see why he is almost surely Town. Unless you have some power that enables you to see what alignment everyone is there is no sure about it.

I find someones play scummy, and with every post he makes it worse. So I place my vote and give my reasons. If you disagree with those reasons and feel I'm trying to place a vote unjustly then by all means tell me why, but to say he put himself in a situation that made a vote seem a decent step and then turn right around and say he is almost surely town and place a vote on me for no reason other than I lack some knowledge you have seems really scummy.

Care to enlighten us as to what makes Bookwyrm almost surely town?

It appears both Robbeasy and me see it, so I'd keep looking if I were you...

I have gone back over Bookwyrm's posts several times and I don't see anything that makes him almost surely town.

Which is fine. I don't think its so obvious that everyone will notice it. Some loyal to town just won't see it. But if you are loyal town, let us play this out a little longer, the more that do see it, the more power to town.

I believe CSPVG can quote me best on this, but if you don't know what I mean, I'll be blunt. Sugar sprinkled BS.
Lurking does not mean scum. Period. There have been games where scum have been the most vocal ones and people followed them like stupid. Game #22 is an example. My very beginning in the forum mafia games and the only efing game I lost. So no, before you try again to justify lurking as something scummy, think twice. In previous games we would have only killed important townies and power roles who ultimately played a part in town's win.