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General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 11, 2014
Hey, GOGgers,

We're not perfect, we're exploring new frontiers, and we make mistakes. We thought DRM-Free was so important that you'd prefer we bring you more DRM-Free games and Fair Price was less critical and that it could be sacrificed in some cases. The last two week's worth of comments in our forums (nearly 10k!), show that's not the case. We didn’t listen and we let you down. We shouldn't sacrifice one of our core values in an attempt to advance another. We feel bad about that, and we're sorry. Us being sorry is not of much use to you, so let’s talk about how we will fix it.

One: DRM-free forever. Abandoning fixed regional pricing means it will probably take longer to get some games, but you've made it clear that sacrificing fair pricing for more DRM-free games isn't acceptable.

Two: We will adamantly continue to fight for games with flat worldwide pricing. If that fails and we are required to have regional prices, we will make up the difference for you out of our own pockets. For now it will be with $5.99 and $9.99 game codes. In a couple of months, once we have such functionality implemented, we will give you store credit instead, which then you will be able to use towards any purchase and cover the price of it in full or partially. Effectively gamers from all around the world will be able to benefit from the US prices.

This will apply to every single game where we do not have flat pricing, such as Age of Wonders 3 (full details here), Divinity: Original Sin, and The Witcher 3. If you remember the Fair Price Package for The Witcher 2, this will be exactly the same.

Three: We still intend to introduce the pricing in local currencies. Let us explain why we want to do it and how we want to make it fair for everyone. From the very beginning our intention was to make things easier for users whose credit cards/payment systems are not natively in USD. The advantages are simple because the price is more understandable and easier to relate to. There would be no exchange rates involved, no transaction fees, and no other hidden charges. However after reading your comments, we realized we have taken an important element away: the choice. In order to fix this, we'll offer the option of paying in the local currency or the equivalent in USD. This way, how you pay is always your choice.

Four: You are what matters, and we will be sure to involve you all more in what we're doing and why we're doing it. Let's start by meeting you at GDC - we’d like to invite you to meet us face-to-face Monday the 17th at GDC. Obviously, not all of you can come to San Francisco, so we want to invite all of you to an online event with us early in April to ask us whatever you would like. More details soon.

The bottom line is simple: there may be companies that won't work with us (although we will work hard to convince the most stubborn ones ;). Yes, it means we might miss out on some games, but at the same time GOG.com will remain true to its values and will keep on offering you the best of DRM-free gaming with Fair Prices.

Once again thank you for caring so much about GOG.com. We will work hard not to disappoint you again.

--Marcin "iWi" Iwinski & Guillaume "TheFrenchMonk" Rambourg
Posted March 13, 2014
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GabiMoro: ...I was ok to pay a higher price (than US) if that means getting more games on GOG (that wouldn't be here otherwise). ...
That is a crucial part of the whole thing. How many more games could they have? And how much higher price than US would be still be acceptable? And maybe not all would be willing to pay higher prices if the games aren't interesting.

Basically GOG still tries to make it right for everyone. They try to keep regional pricing but more flat than elsewhere. I guess this is the right stance unless they have clear indications that they can get tons of AAA without these corrections. If so, please GOG just have regional prices and screw some of the customers - it's okay.

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teknomedic: ...gog themselves stated that some games may be delayed or never come out now because of this.

...how are you ok with that?
You can never have everything. With DRM there could be even more games here and still we don't want that.

Regional pricing as done by publishers currently is really unfair ($1=1€) and many customers in the world wouldn't buy at GOG at this rate. GOG decided it's not worth it and made a compromise. Of course in a compromise everyone has to give a bit (except for the publishers who don't give anything and get everything). The potential loss of a few games versus a more flat and fair pricing model. I can agree with it.

But if GOG has indications that they lose more than just a few games maybe they should rethink. It would depend on the number and popularity.

I mostly curse the publishers for their greedy behavior and their insistence on DRM. They think they can divide the world and play one part off gainst another.
Post edited March 13, 2014 by Trilarion
Posted March 13, 2014
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GabiMoro: Game codes and/or store credit sounds nice but I hope GOG won't be to much negatively affected by this.
Maybe they should make this optional, like someone could choose to not do it in order to further support GOG.
Posted March 13, 2014
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GabiMoro: Game codes and/or store credit sounds nice but I hope GOG won't be to much negatively affected by this.
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cmdr_flashheart: Maybe they should make this optional, like someone could choose to not do it in order to further support GOG.
An option to forfeit a gift code or store credit would also be helping there. Or an option to donate store credit to a charity of choice.
Posted March 13, 2014
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GabiMoro: I'm favored by "one world, one price" but I was ok to pay a higher price (than US) if that means getting more games on GOG (that wouldn't be here otherwise).
Isn't the average net wage of Romania lower than the us one? Maybe you do earn more than the average Romanian but I doubt others would be ok to pay more than people who earn more for the same product.
Post edited March 13, 2014 by Hawat
Posted March 13, 2014
After reading several posts in this latest announcement, i did some napkin math about flat prices, regional prices, vat and the revenue split, and arrived to some theories depending on how it actually works:
- if the split betwen gog and the game's developer/publisher is always done with regard to the store price displayed, then the developer/publisher earns the same amount regardless if the sale is to a vat country client or not while gog earns less and less the higher the vat rate is. If the split id done after deducting that vat owed when appliable, then both developer/publisher and gog earn less from sales to vat countries.
- Regional prices with $=€ conversion should mean both gog and developer/publisher earn more.
- Regardless of how the split is done, the US/non vat markets looks far more profitable than the others (with a 20% vat rate and a theoretical 30% split to gog more than double the profit).
- Gog taking the hit on the price diference of regional priced games shrinks even further their profits on vat markets or even turns that into a loss the higher the vat.
- If regional prices became the norm, vat markets would be next to meaningless profit wise or even amount to losses, with the hope that us/non vat markets would cover that hit from increased sales.

Napkin math taken considering a 60 $ priced game, 20% vat rate and 30% split to gog:
60= 50 + 10 (20% vat)
30% split= 18 or 15 depending on wether split is done before or after deducing vat owed.
Split on a us sale: 42/18, no vat owed
Split on a vat sale regarding displayed price: 42/18, but gog has to pay 10 vat out of those 18.
Split on a vat sale regarding price without vat: 35/15, gog has to pay 10 vat but that doesnt shrink the 15 earned.
Posted March 13, 2014
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teknomedic: i have over 646 games on gog.... perhaps when you have that many youll be wanting a larger library over saving few dollars too. just a thought.
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gooberking: Holy crap, that's just about all of them! No wonder you want more - you're out of options.
No, he's not. He could start actually playing them. ;-)
Posted March 13, 2014
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GabiMoro: ...I was ok to pay a higher price (than US) if that means getting more games on GOG (that wouldn't be here otherwise). ...
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Trilarion: That is a crucial part of the whole thing. How many more games could they have? And how much higher price than US would be still be acceptable? And maybe not all would be willing to pay higher prices if the games aren't interesting.

Basically GOG still tries to make it right for everyone. They try to keep regional pricing but more flat than elsewhere. I guess this is the right stance unless they have clear indications that they can get tons of AAA without these corrections. If so, please GOG just have regional prices and screw some of the customers - it's okay.
I don't know how many games could be here. Would I be ok to see Grim Fandango (or Diablo 1 or Warcraft 2) on GOG for 100$ , flat priced and DRM-free? (or not at all). Hmm, let's see......

Would I buy it? Hell no. Would it be a rip-off? Well, it's too expensive too me, even at a 75% sale.
Would I rather not see this game on GOG? Of course not, somebody could still buy it.
Would I complain that this is a rip-off, that the game is overpriced and could be bought for only 20$ in other store? That this game shouldn't be on GOG? Of course not, somebody could still buy it.. I'll just ignore the game.

Yes, GOG still tries to make it right for everyone but if that means some games won't be in here DRM-free, it's not fair for the customers who could buy them.
GOG could also make these games only available in some countries for a flat price and not available in EU but this could also be unfair for some EU customers who think the inflated price is ok and fair for them.

So, a good method would be to make the game available in the whole world and regionally priced (if necesary) because every customer could easily ignore/boycott this particular game.

I hope GOG will manage to strike a deal will all publishers with this compromise of store credit, but I have my concerns.
Post edited March 13, 2014 by GabiMoro
Posted March 13, 2014
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iWi: We just wanted to make sure, that we clearly mention the possibility of not getting some games in future.
That's okay. We don't have to have all the games. Chosing not to do business with someone is a valid business decision and may very well prove to be the right one in the long term.
Posted March 13, 2014
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GabiMoro: I'm favored by "one world, one price" but I was ok to pay a higher price (than US) if that means getting more games on GOG (that wouldn't be here otherwise).
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Hawat: Isn't the average net wage of Romania lower than the us one? Maybe you do earn more than the average Romanian but I doubt others would be ok to pay more than people who earn more for the same product.
The average net wage of Romania is way lower than the US one (400$ I think). Yes, I do I earn more then the average Romanian but it's still under the US average. But this is not the point. Who am I to decide if the price is right or not for other Romanian/EU customer?

"I don't like the price so nobody should buy this" seems selfish to me. (I'm talking of games which wouldn't be on GOG other than regionally priced).
Post edited March 13, 2014 by GabiMoro
Posted March 13, 2014
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darkangelz: ...the US/non vat markets looks far more profitable than the others...
With a flat price this is for sure, with a regional price if the regional price is high enough (higher than VAT) then I would say that VAT market can be more profitable. $1=1€ looks to me like more profitable even after deduction of VAT because the real conversion rate difference $ to € is much more than typical VAT rates.

One way to completely switch off the influence of VAT would be to have worldwide flat prices before tax and then add the tax according to the home country of the buyer. Simple and clean and reasonable.

I wonder if GOG really pays no tax for sales in the US. After all there are regional sales taxes in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States Do they not apply and if not why not?
Posted March 13, 2014
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darkangelz: ...the US/non vat markets looks far more profitable than the others...
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Trilarion: With a flat price this is for sure, with a regional price if the regional price is high enough (higher than VAT) then I would say that VAT market can be more profitable. $1=1€ looks to me like more profitable even after deduction of VAT because the real conversion rate difference $ to € is much more than typical VAT rates.

One way to completely switch off the influence of VAT would be to have worldwide flat prices before tax and then add the tax according to the home country of the buyer. Simple and clean and reasonable.

I wonder if GOG really pays no tax for sales in the US. After all there are regional sales taxes in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States Do they not apply and if not why not?
GOG said they don't pay sale tax in US (they don't aply for online transactions).

If I were GOG I would say: "Unfortunatelly, because of UE legislation we can not keep the flat price. So, from now on we will have a flat price + a local tax (VAT, sale tax or none at all) depending on the country of residence, If you don't like it deal with your govement.

Still not the unfair 1$=1 euro but not quite the flat price. Deal with it!"

Well not so rude, but you got the idea.
Post edited March 13, 2014 by GabiMoro
Posted March 13, 2014
First, I don't know the details of the issue of the pricing plan they introduced.

But speaking generally, I'd have leaned towards gog.com doing the right thing, and bringing some games that their plan was the only way to bring, and I'm fine with that - I'd like more games available.

I guess lots of people objected to the pricing, and it's nice they listen, but I'm wondering what games we won't see.

I know non-US gamers often get screwed (and maybe sometimes the other way around) on different game buying sites. I'm sympathetic to the issue. But I'm guessing gog.com was also with the pan.
Posted March 13, 2014
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GabiMoro: ... Would I buy it? Hell no. Would it be a rip-off? Well, it's too expensive too me, even at a 75% sale.
Would I rather not see this game on GOG? Of course not, somebody could still buy it.
Would I complain that this is a rip-off, that the game is overpriced and could be bought for only 20$ in other store? That this game shouldn't be on GOG? Of course not, somebody could still buy it.. I'll just ignore the game. ...
I don't really understand that. You would like to buy it but you are happy if you cannot because still somebody else might be able to do it. Usually people do not behave so selfless.

GOG makes profit with every game that they have more but also with every game that is not extremely high priced. So what compromise should they chose?

My advice is that in case they see cool games that only want to come with really bad regional pricing they should still accept them and make a compromise of the compromise. But just not for every game.

In the end it means: Fair pricing is indeed an important topic because the people are here because of DRM free and cheap games. DRM free expensive games do not work either in the sense that GOG won't make sell much there. With expensive I mean 50% more not 5% more.
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Craig234: ... but I'm wondering what games we won't see. ...
I hope none, but we don't know. Maybe many years in the future GOG will reveal how many offers they had to decline if any.

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GabiMoro: ... If I were GOG I would say: "Unfortunatelly, because of UE legislation we can not keep the flat price. ...
I would still see it as a flat price, just in another way.

And I wonder if the US should close the loophole of not applying sales taxes to online transactions. Seems a bit unfair towards retail.
Post edited March 13, 2014 by Trilarion
Posted March 13, 2014
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GabiMoro: ... Would I buy it? Hell no. Would it be a rip-off? Well, it's too expensive too me, even at a 75% sale.
Would I rather not see this game on GOG? Of course not, somebody could still buy it.
Would I complain that this is a rip-off, that the game is overpriced and could be bought for only 20$ in other store? That this game shouldn't be on GOG? Of course not, somebody could still buy it.. I'll just ignore the game. ...
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Trilarion: I don't really understand that. You would like to buy it but you are happy if you cannot because still somebody else might be able to do it. Usually people do not behave so selfless.
1. If the game wouldn't be on GOG then I wouldn't buy it and nobody would (because there's nothing to buy).

2. If the game is on GOG I wouldn't buy it because I can't afford it but some people could buy it.

I lose in both situation (or I don't gain anything) but in the second case some people could benefit.

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Trilarion: And I wonder if the US should close the loophole of not applying sales taxes to online transactions. Seems a bit unfair towards retail.
GOG says US may charge sales tax starting from 2015 or 2016. Let me see if I can find that post.

Found it: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/announcement_big_preorders_launch_day_releases_coming/post342
Post edited March 13, 2014 by GabiMoro
Posted March 13, 2014
Thank you for listening to your core customers.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)