There are some games (typically RPGs and RPG-adjacent games) in which, as you level up, so do the enemies. You gain a level, and the enemies you face are more powerful.

It's easy to think of games that have been heavily criticized because of this mechanic, like TES: Oblivion and Final Fantasy 8; perhaps it's because they implement the mechanic rather poorly.

My question is: Are there any games that implement this mechanic *well*?

Every single RPG game or game with RPG elements that I have played which had enemy scaling systems simply ruined the progression feeling for me.

The whole point of playing an RPG for me is to feel your character/party evolve/grow over time in order to overcome higher challenges. Any kind of enemy scaling is working against that character progression. Developers mainly use this mechanic as a crutch in order to avoid handcrafting challenges for the players or use it as an excuse to "facilitate" multiplayer/co-op in modern live-service games.

For me, scaling systems & RPGs don't mix - they are like oil & water.

So in short... no. I am personally not aware of ANY videogame where scaling systems improved the experience.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot to add one additional HUGE downside for scaling systems in RPG... breaking immersion, which is again one of the highlights of the genre... pretty sure everyone would agree that your godly high-tier character/party getting their a$$ kicked by a level 112 wolf or rat doesn't really make ANY sense whatsoever...

Any game that can punish you with harder enemies for running and jumping a lot probably isn't the best designed thing ever

Precisely. There can't be a game that does it well because the very concept is harmful.

IMO the thread title is an oxymoron. Level scaling is an inherently bad concept which therefore cannot possibly be "done well," and it defeats the entire main point of playing an RPG, which is to become stronger and more powerful over time (except that level scaling completely destroys that concept).

It's a key part of most SRPGs, like FFT and Fell Seal.

And plenty of strategy games in the "percent matters" branch (like XCom) use elements of it, if they have a free-play mode. In both cases, though, the story mission levels are usually level-locked.

Grim Dawn has "within a range" level scaling for its first 2 difficulty levels. They'll level up with you, to a point. You easily can out-level them (and depending on the order you do things, sometimes you'll be out-leveled before you get to them). Bosses have their own level range separate from the trash in a zone. The 3rd difficulty they all can range up to max (but you're usually max level, or close to it, before you begin that difficulty anyway).

Any CRPG/WRPG/JRPG I've encountered with the feature has been lousy.

I think it may be theoretically possible to do it not-badly if carefully done, but, like procedural generation/"roguelike", the hand-crafted experience would probably still be better in most cases.

Disgaea scales really well... Otherwise, hard to tell.

I personally can't name any, but I'm sure as long as it's restricted to certain elements, it would stave off the concept of steamrolling everything, like maybe have a few elite enemies here and there if your level is too high, mix them in random encounters. Of course, it would have to make sense, like if the world's chaos levels are high enough that mercenaries are packing high end gear and stats, or they're bounty hunters looking to kick your teeth in for pissing off the wrong people. At that, you might want to set a ceiling so that they aren't more powerful than the bigger threats, at least not as often. I think someone mentioned that bounty hunters in Fallout 2 can get straight up more dangerous than Enclave patrols.

Kingdom of Amalur does it well. The original game would set area levels based on your current level the first time you enter them, then level scale them up with you for about 10 levels. The Remake has static area levels then levels them up some (don't remember how much). In both cases, you will out-level an area if that is your goal. But it also ensures an area stays challenging for a little while, too. So it has a small, capped level scaling that in theory keeps areas challenging for you, hopefully for the majority of the duration you're in them. But if you pass back through, you will one-shot/ignore everything because you will be a powerhouse and the enemies will be stuck at a lower level now than you've achieved.

Some games also have scaling with diminishing returns (meaning an early game enemy will start gaining power quickly, but it will slow down the higher it levels so that you will still over-power it exponentially more with late game stats/equipment than you do in the early and mid game). So the enemies get stronger, but you get stronger faster. I wish I could remember the name of the game with this system.

That's not the type of level scaling I'm talking about. In Disgaea, your level does not affect the enemy levels. Rather, what can cause enemy levels to increase are these factors:
* How many "stronger enemies" bills have been passed
* The rank and level of the item you're currently in (if you're in the item world)

(I suspect most players will prefer Disgaea's "stronger enemies" bills mechanic, which is mostly under control of the player (the bill still has to pass when it's proposed) to the kind of level scaling I'm talking about, where the player character's level is what affects enemy levels.)

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None, that I can think of.

Level scaling in RPGs is like rubber band AI in racing games: it ruins the immersion.

This relates to a different idea I've had: Scale enemy strength with quests completed.

(I'm thinking that Wizardry 8 would have been better if it had taken this approach. Instead of scaling to the party's average level (as the game actually does), they could have had enemy levels increase with each of the 3 major artifacts collected.)

Why do this? I understand wanting to keep a challenge, and i understand growth, but if you're always on the same general strength then you never get ahead.

I'm level 3 and the enemy is level 7, so i grind to 10th level, but they are now level 14...

Why? I'd rather not level at all.

Reminded of Oblivion, the first gate you have to go to, demons are too strong, level up too much and they are still vastly stronger than you and you don't have the spells/equipment to get on a level play with them. ugg..

I'd rather have something like laura croft Go at that point, just make it an enjoyable puzzle story.

That's a hard no. Though I've done it some games through modding just for fun.

Maybe it might work for a shooter game, don’t know, but for me it'd kill my sense of progression if it were a RPG. I shudder at the thought of what the original Baldur's Gate would have been like if there was level scaling haha.

These are just my personal opinions:

- RPGs are meant to immerse you into a grand story, one that you, the player, can be a part of. Scaled enemies might break that immersion, if they constantly use the same leveling system you do and shop at the same equipment stores as well hehe.

- It's meant to be fun, not frustrating. Though I don't think there's a single game out there that didn't have its moment of frustration lol.

- It's OK to be OP at the later stages of a game, it's also OK not to be. But it's not OK if the enemy is constantly OP along with you haha. I don't want to feel like I'm in a boss battle at every encounter. I tried a level scaling mod with Grim Dawn and oh my goodness, I felt like I was grinding from level 1, yikes!

Anyway, there is a game I read about, but didn't play it personally. I only recall it cause I kept taking it on and off my wishlist every time I read the reviews, but end up getting curious later lol.

Satellite Reign - apparently, some like the scaling, while others find it frustrating. Maybe one to check out.

Also, Fallout 1 and 2 (or maybe just 2?), I think they had scaled random encounters. Though I don't think it was a 1:1 scaling. I recall messing around with the leveling up and seeing late game encounters before even the first town! Facing gatling guns while still having the starting spear, good times! Ofc, I've played both games in the original state many times prior to modding. :)

Quick mention. I did mod Dragon's Dogma DA to scale with the player and that was one of the few games I enjoyed the scaling. Ofc, it was a heavily modded game by that point anyway haha. Typically, I mod games after trying them once though.

Overall, I agree with people that say it's a bad idea. It's just so hard to balance in a genre like RPG. It drains the fun out of it a majority of the time. I’ve yet to play one that did this right in its original release.
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It is usually a bad thing, especially in ARPGs and it easily gets out of hand, forces gear obsolescence every couple of levels and leads to many other problems, especially if the scaling is % based.

Recently uninstalled Torchlight 2 because everything, including your skills and their damage scales with level. It was just tediously boring.

Grim Dawn endgame sucks too, after level 94-95, you get basically 0 benefit for levelling up, yet enemies continue to scale with every level. Your character will be much more powerful in every regard at level 94 (when the most powerful items unlock), than at level 100. Your character would be objectively better at everything if you just stopped levelling up which is just wrong, in an ARPG.

As for some games that did it "not horribly" - Borderlands 1 and Pre-Sequel, Sacred 2.