lol. Heck no. HSL is just so... I dunno, not right.

I did nothing of the sort. It's not my fault I don't immediately believe someone's claim in a game of mafia.

I AM. Aaarrgh. HSL is scum, I'm pretty sure.




@Krypsyn You're right, cult games are madness. I'll pass on next one, lol

As discussion is still ongoing I don’t think leaving bookwyrm at L-1 is wise. So until we are done discussing:
Unvote bookwyrm

And this game has two of them.

Your vote put him at L-2. Nobody else voted for him since your vote. Your unvote put him back at L-3.

Is this directed at me? If yes, I didn't originally think Wyrm was scum, he was and still is hard to read for me, so if I think he is scum it won't be "still". His big post seems to be thought through but I'm unsure of the motivation behind it. I'm still not convinced he is scum but I don't like the open discussion on roles he is trying to start. I don't have too much time on my hands to try and go over every assumption and conclusion he has listed - some of the reads I agree with on-the-fly, some I'm hesitant to agree with just because I'm unsure of my own reads. To be honest I'd rather go with Leonard over Wyrm and I still won't be sure about Wyrm afterwards - he is among the players that I know are capable of brazen scum plays (like that Cop claim, even though I was sure he was bullshitting us but no one believed me and we lost because of it). So far mostly others suspected him so maybe I'm reading him wrong but I can't make up my mind. I was starting to think we might have a good chance with him but if his big comes does come from a Town mindset it seems to make some sense on when the masons discussion is put to the side.

TL;DR: I still can't make up my mind.

-I haven't "spilled" anything. I've taken Mchack's statements about who he is/is not masons with, and I've taken the wagon analysis that town should be doing anyway, and combined them to come up with the obvious conclusion. This is something that any of us could have done (even the new guy), and I'd wager that scum have either already done it, or they would have done it at night if we didn't. Continuing to pretend that Mason!Mchack hasn't outed his mason buddies isn't doing town any favors, and it may prevent town from advancing in a useful direction as townies are too busy trying to avoid outing the masons to deal with the problem of lynching scum.

I refer you back to Day 1, where none of the primary wagons were moving, and no one tried to start a new one before time had basically run out.

-We were in that race at least from the moment that Mchack started claiming, whether you want to admit it or not.

That is from the official vote record. My count includes Adalia's vote, under the assumption that he did mean to vote for me. He didn't unvote first, so officially his vote for me was invalid.

And if there are fewer votes for me than I indicated, I'd read it as even fewer people than I thought wanted to stop me.

A simple analysis of the D1 wagons (that was going to happen anyway) combined with YOUR claims were all that was needed to out the masons. I've stopped pretending they were uncovered, but them being exposed is your fault, not mine. If you didn't want them outed, then you shouldn't have claimed.

While someone would have to try and read me to figure whether I'm coming from town or scum (what would be my scum motivation for this, anyway?), one doesn't have to do much more than surface reading to conclude "I can't see masons risking their mason buddy this way".

Maybe I could have only said "According to the wagons, Dedo, Krypsyn, and ZFR aren't aligned with Mchack", but the net effect (only Flub, Trent, or Sage could be your mason buddies) is the same. Dancing around naming them as the masons is tedious, and it prevents us from clearly saying why Flub, Trent, and/or Sage are off the table.

Your plan for when I flip town is either to lynch a mason or to out the rest of the masons?

*snort* If I flip scum, what does that tell you? That HSL is scum? You've already drawn that conclusion before my flip.

I've already outlined why scum almost certainly won't be shooting wrong, and it is your information that filled in the missing pieces.

The idea that your mason buddies were still in hiding is nothing but an illusion, much like an ostrich with its head in the sand still has its butt standing high, just waiting to be shot.

What would they have done? Voted for the claimed mason? Outed themselves?

Maybe put together the evidence that shows the claim is false, without actually claiming themselves? :P

*shrug* You are probably already aware that you gave the expected answer, regardless of your alignment.

How close was I to being lynched before this?

Assume for a moment that I'm a cyborg. What would I have to gain by this? Can you give any half-way plausible reason that isn't "WIFOM"?

I can't know for sure but I know that discussing who the masons are is incredibly scummy. no one benefits from it but scum having a sure call for their conversions tonight.
I will not disclose whether his post is in any way correct or not. I also recommend that anyone he may or may not got right or wrong to not disclose that fact. This will only help scum tonight. I know I am mason. The other two masons know I am mason. I know that none of the three I proposed as good lynch targets today are mason. So for any town not sure, this should be enough and just vote for the one you see scummiest of the three. and when we do get a wagon then just lynch him and we'll see a flip.

Best we hit scum, worst we hit town vanilla. There is no way to hit a mason in any of those three.

Then night will come and tomorrow we can go full monty if you guys want.

But going full monty today is just too dangerous as that would loose us any chance of scum killing themselves by getting it wrong. And tomorrow we would have a teams of (at worst) 4 scum + 2 scum + 3 mason + 2 vanilla minus one vanilla or scum (or even mason if you don't believe me) depending on the flip.
and this is exactly what bookwyrm is proposing, which is why I still want him lynched (even if town, this is just too scummy a thing to risk - he even said he believed me, but then why frigging why do this.)

any more discussion on the topic of masons can only hurt town. the only discussion I want is which of the three to lynch and then just do it. Tomorrow there will likely be not as much risk anymore and we can talk. Today not lynching a mason should be enough. (and we won't)

Unofficial Vote Count

flubbucket - 0 Votes (ZFR 705/787; Krypsyn 739/834)

Bookwyrm627 - 3 Votes (trentonlf 776/855; flubbucket 777/819; mchack 782/823; mchack 918; Krypsyn 931; ZFR 935; trentonlf 938/947)

trentonlf - 0 Votes (Bookwyrm627 708/913; adaliabooks 717/723)

dedoporno - 0 Votes

adaliabooks - 1 Votes (flubbucket 712/777; mchack 714/782; mchack 823/873; flubbucket 827; Leonard03 891/939; mchack 894/918)

Krypsyn - 0 Votes

ZFR - 0 Votes

Leonard03 - 2 Votes (adaliabooks 723/748; ZFR 787/835; trentonlf 855/884; dedoporno 856; ZFR 858/897; mchack 873/894; adaliabooks 874)

mchack - 0 Votes (Bookwyrm627 696/708; adaliabooks 748/824; Leonard03 803/890)

Sage103082|gogtrial34987 - 0 Votes (Leonard03 781/803|)

HypersomniacLive - 1 Votes (trentonlf 702/776; Krypsyn 834/883; Leonard03 939)

Not Voting - 4 abstentions (gogtrial34987; HypersomniacLive; Bookwyrm627; trentonlf)

Is adalia not voting for bookwyrm? (Post 920)

I don’t want to discuss Masons at all, I meant discussing if bookwyrm is who we feel is our best chance of hitting scum or not.

Accidently hit the "post message" hotkey before I was done.

I added the things you forgot to say. Don't worry, I underlined them for you.


Yeah, no. F that noise. I know you are factually wrong about one of your candidates, and your insistence on completely ignoring certain facts means I don't trust the rest of your reads either. This townie is not blindly joining you on a lynch just because you claimed mason. You simply aren't credible enough in this game for me to do that.

You might lynch one of the three of us Today, but you'll do it without my vote unless you prove to be more persuasive than you have been.

It was directed at mchack, but thank you for your input too.

I can't. Honestly.
But I also think if you are doing it as WIFOM, you are capable of pulling it off. dedo just said you pulled off "that Cop claim, even though I was sure he was bullshitting us but no one believed me and we lost because of it".

Look, I'm really inclined to believe you, but at this point all I want is not to hit a mason. So I would rather follow what the mason says. Following him can't lynch a mason, even if he is a fraud (which I doubt) real masons wouldn't allow it. I will happily change my vote if mchack says otherwise.

mchack, please consider this: I know you consider discussing mason anti-town, and I can agree on this, but if Bookwyrm was a scum, would he write all that exposition? Wouldn't he rather keep it to himself and his scum team for the night? WIFOM aside.
Do consider adalia or HSL. I will follow that vote. Or Leonard too; if you decide to go that way.
And I know you might think me now Bookwyrm's scum buddy, but again consider this: would I, as Bookwyrm's scum buddy, be asking this on behalf of Bookwyrm, and thus implicating myself when he is closest to being lynched and would flip scum?

Also, everyone, I really am travelling tomorrow. Across the Atlantic at that. So if I don't vote as mchack immediately it's because of that. Please wait with anything important till Wednesday evening US time if you want my input.

that's fine. :) no prob with that from my side...

----

no, right. now I get it. I should have stayed silent and let you lynch a mason, which you tried hard yesterday and tried to do today (first post even). Sure I should have kept silent as I did yesterday, because nothing is townier than a mason that just let's himself get lynched. Also I didn't give out my fellow masons. Sure it isn't much margin for error but still better than just putting them out there and letting scum clap their hands like you propose.

I said don't post who you think a mason is (or muse about it.) Yesterday you seemed to think the same but now all of a sudden it is a-ok to make sure scum can't mis-convert anymore.

So you think there should be no wiggle room for the other masons to hide in? You want scum to take their unmolestered pick out of the remaining vanillas? Why when not scum yourself?

had not much time. anyway your reason is:
sorry reread your post can't find a reason in there for why you want scum to know exactly who the masons are. Only thing I can see is you do not want to lynch either of the 3 (hsl, adalia or yourself - well maybe hsl but not really)
Sorry this is just scummy as hell.

----

no this "townie" would rather have two more scum in game tomorrow than risk one mislynch (which has at least 50% chance of hitting scum and no chance of hitting a mason)

Oops. It should have been a real vote, I forgot I was still voting Leonard. Been busy here.

I won't vote just yet though, I've got to catch up and I'm not sure where Bookwyrm is at don't want to hammer him if he has gathered votes and we are not ready yet.