ah he talks :) welcome Krypsyn missed you. But after a bit of thought I think you are wrong in this case:
Yes the masons know more people, people they won't try and make slip, correct? scum knows less, so is forced to scumhunt, too. which if successful even helps town! which is nice. Also the chance of mason slipping up vs scum slipping up is 3:4 (cause more scum) so we do even have a higher chance of finding scum this game.
Which means: Scumhunting is doubly the way to go this game. Just randomly lynching some town vanilla and giving scum a chance to talk (nightchat) regroup, prepare and kill/convert more townies as adalia seems to suggest is exactly not what we want to do. I do hope we can lynch scum today. chances aren't so bad really.

unvote flubbucket

give the man a chance to talk before lynching at least. if indeed town vanilla he shouldn't be lynched (which would be saving scum a nk - even if he'll get converted like adalia seems to think, that's still one nightaction used that they can't use to nk town then)
I voted because I think suicide is a scummy thing to do, but at least let him give some explanation first.
if indeed he's a vanilla town, I won't be part of lynching him same as trent.

Nope.
I get a feeling you may be mchack's buddy, but my feeling about him is far stronger. Last time I was convinced drealmer was trent's buddy because of things I'd thought I'd seen between them and couldn't have been more wrong so I'm more than willing to concede I'm tunnelling a bit on mchack and your defence of him, however slight, has set my alarm bells ringing.

If I was going to vote anyone else I'd vote mchack, as I'm fairly certain of that read. But as no one else is interested today (and for other reasons I will point out after the game) I think flub needs to be lynched for the reasons I've already outlined.

As for the rest of it. Your a good player so of course we wouldn't expect you to make such an obvious move, so we would, so we wouldn't, etc. etc. We all know how that goes. You may well be town who thinks mchack is town, or town who was just asking an innocuous question which was taken the wrong way. You may even have made a mistake (as scum or town) though I find that less likely coming from you.
But just because the move may not have been brilliant or turned out how you hoped doesn't really say you are or are not scum.

Don't do scums work for them! (unless you are actually scum, then go right ahead and lynch someone you "in fact do believe is town")

also again: the advertising as being a good knowledgable recruit that will bring new tactics to his buddies once they recruit him...

I totally agree thats the case when scum.
But if you try to look at it from a town perspective, where does the info come from? ok the flip which will be 2 town vanilla dead in most games (lynch + nk) and in this it might be 3 town vanilla dead (lynch + 2 nk). So how is this better information to get to a town game winning state if looking at the wagon helps noone because noone bothered to scumhunt or put reasons or stances down for his vote but just voted the next best person, because he felt like it. or just voted whoever was prettiest at the moment?

But that's one nightaction they used to convert town, which is worse than nk town.
It's like saying you're happy your leg got amputated because at least now it won't be broken.

Well then what is left anyday? Do we just sit around and hope the mafia kill each other off? I'd rather take a proactive role in rooting them out. Also, there are 4 scum players who can possibly slip up and only 3 masons, so I disagree that there is a higher chance of a slip up hurting town.

But... we're also one closer to losing the game...

Well I think you're wrong there. Sure the wagon has disappeared now, but I don't think it would take a lot for people to pile on mchack.

Then why the heck would we lynch him? And why the heck would he want to be lynched? Sure we're closer to lynching mafia next day, but overall we've progressed mafia win condition more than our own. Also, flub never really seemed the suicidal type.

Scum-hunting and tunnelling are not the same thing.


Two questions for you:

- Why would either of the scum team waste a perfectly good NK on a confirmed Town Vanilla when they can convert them and increase their numbers?
- Which is worse for town, to have two NK-ed, or to have one converted and one NK-ed? In the first scenario, town's down by two, but scum numbers remain the same; in the second one, town's still down by two, but one scum team is now up by one. Which scenario brings town closer to victory?

You seem awfully willing to throw your vote around. We still have a bit of time, no need to rush things.

I'm not. I'm doing our work for tomorrow so we don't have to.
Let's say we don't lynch flub and we lynch someone else. They're likely to be town too, might even force a mason to claim, so we don't really gain much there. Then in the night flub is recruited (or even worse case, scum guess correctly and convert a different townie in which case we lynch flub tomorrow assuming he's been converted when he hasn't) and we lynch him tomorrow. We gain no info from tomorrow's lynch because of course everyone will vote flub if we assume he has been converted.

You just want to know what it is so you can use it.

The flip.
We have no investigative roles so the only info we ever get is the flip (and masons claiming, which in this game is solid confirmation if all of them do).
Right now we have to choose 4 from 12, including a lot of noise like flub and Krypsyn and the lurkers like Leonard and Sage.
Tomorrow we may only have to choose 4 from 9. If the masons all survive the night and claim then it's 4 from 6. Plus the record of today to root out the townies from the bunch.

How is that not a better winning state?

Trust in Masons.

Masons have Day-chat.
Scum do not have Day-chat.

We have no clue who the Masons are and we should not be asking who they are. So there’s no way of knowing who to trust. So your comment makes no sense.

@Hyper, Lynching someone you think is probably town is not a pro town play, even in this setup if you think that person is vanilla. The pro town play is to try and lynch scum, but I’m not going to convince adalia of that because he is dead set on lynching flub simply because flub asked to be lynched and he feels flub is town vanilla.

Ah, now we're back to feelings. And yet, just a few posts ago, I very clearly and obviously acted in a way that can only come from a scum mindset.


The move has turned out just fine in terms of my hopes, and neither has anything to do with mchack.
No need to repeat that I'm not scum, or how it makes no sense for me to have made the play you think I made.


Something crossed my mind that would be hilarious if it happened.



May I suggest you ISO flubbucket in game #51?

Irrelevant. As I already outlined in my response to mchack, a townie you don't know is a townie is not an asset. Having a smaller pool to pick from means a far greater chance of success in choosing the right target.

Maybe. I'd quite happily lynch him if a wagon appeared, as if he is scum then hitting him removes a recruiting chance. But I really don't see that happening much. Particularly as some of those who would need to vote him are voting me (including you) and I don't really see you buying my arguments that he is scum.

There is another side to it, and I'll cover it if everyone really wants me to but I believe it helps scum far more than town.
But the basic reason we want to lynch him is to prevent him being an easy convert for one of the scum teams.

Knowing who is Mason has zero to do with trusting in Masons.

Ok, we agree to disagree.

Actually I find your arguments not too bad. Nothing stopping you from being scum on opposite teams in my mind.

Ok, I understand your reasoning behind this now, but it doesn't make sense as a play before people thought he was a vanilla towny. Sooo... why did you vote for him then? There wasn't anything saying he had to die.