I'm afraid that among the people we have left there are so few Town players that winning may not even be possible anymore. JMich, flub and cristi are weird to me. Trent even more so. You were the only one I was putting some hopes on but when I read that post in the way I read it I got even more demoralized. Fortunately the last part may not be the case after all.


I was under the impression that you wanted me to comment on my stance regarding alignments and quotations [again] in this line:

It seems the game is slowing down again. I'd like to hear what cristi think we should do.

I'm not asking you to repeat the same things over and over, I'm asking you specific questions. For instance, how does drealmer7 fit in with the knowledge you claim to have about alignments? If you are indeed who you say you are, and what you claimed is the truth, why would you have a problem answering?


drealmer7 was your top suspect for almost all of D1 for being scum who slipped; that's a pretty good reason to strongly suspect someone. When the Day ended, he had dropped further down your list because of other people climbing higher due to things they said and done. Among them Sage103082. I assume that those things must have been worse than what your top suspect drealmer7 did, otherwise why would he be dethroned by any of them? From all those, you picked her, and the reason you gave is your post #128.

That is your argument Today. It doesn't quite add up for me, so I'm asking you to help me understand your thought process and see things from your PoV. But all you say is that it doesn't matter why you chose her and that it doesn't need explaining, which reads to me like dodging and deflecting. Which in turn makes me even more sceptical; you may not have investigated her at all, if you are an investigative role, or you may not be an investigative role at all, and if you actually targeted her N1, you did so for some other reason.


Not quite, and I wouldn't even say "nice try". You're taking my comment out of context as to dodge one more of my questions/points, with a very subtle touch of shading me.

Yesterday, you came out saying that you had knowledge that HijacK was a bad guy, in a way and at a moment that, as dedoporno already pointed out, looks like a push to secure HijacK's lynch a.s.a.p. because "it seemed more and more people want to buy into Hijack's claim, and that is bad for town" and "Flub unvoted" and "The game was going nowhere", even though more than enough people had doubts and were willing to vote him before the D2 deadline hit. JMich was the first (and I think the only one) to actually take your claim and jump on HijacK's wagon with little to no thought and no questions asked.

If that had caught your attention, you said nothing when you came on Today. Instead you went about things the way I laid out in my post #854. It wasn't until it looked like you wouldn't escape the lynch that you took "a guess" that JMich "is either scum or an anti-town neutral", "went back and looked at his posts from yesterday" and found the post that "is anything but a typical JMich" one, and voted him, later advising us to lynch him in your place. Which, more than anything else, looks like you went to look whom among the living players you could pick to (somewhat) convincingly self-preserve on. Self-preservation is expected and fine, but the way things unfolded with you end of D2 and Today don't quite support it coming from a town place.


Well, "because I am not taking the chance and hurting town" doesn't exactly equal "besides JMich, I suspect so and so for this and this reason".

For someone claiming to be town, and having town's best interest in mind, you seem a tad too unwilling to give town anything to work with after you're gone. dedoporno asked you something similar Yesterday, and you refused because you had your reasons. Do the same reasons still stand at this point? If yes, how so?



No, not what you thought (again) in general or in relation to the ones without quotation marks. I wondered about the possibility and likelihood of a specific case, and wanted to hear what you thought about it. I thought I had phrased it pretty clearly, but perhaps I didn't.


It'd seem so, and I guess the mod will soon give us a deadline.

cristigale said several hours ago she'd be on "in the morning", and I hope that means she'll show up soon.

Good point. I missed that. I was just looking at the flips and forgot that drealmer killed Bookwyrm. That does raise the question you asked trent about neutrals.

If trent is town, no, I don't think he would lie about anything. My comment to flubb is related to this: trent says his report on HijacK was mafia, yet Hijack flipped "mafia". His report on Sage was town, but Sage flipped "town". And per trent, the quotes mean anti-town neutral. Therefore, if trent got a report on flubb as town, it's hard for me to see that as confirmation town-flubb. I'd be more inclined to think the opposite given the first two reports and resulting flips.

Yes, I do find it odd for everything to work out the way trent reports. I'll expand on this in the next post.

This was mostly me thinking out loud. Do I have everything straight and I am considering the plausible options. Turns out, I'd over looked something.

I see some signs in trent's play that support his claim. The most notable are:

1. On D1, once trent voted for Hijack, he refused to answer his question. I see that coming from the mindset of someone who is 100% certain of Hijack's alignment.

2. After trent's claim yesterday, I almost asked him if he planned to share anything else in case he was killed during the night. Ultimately, I decided against it. I figured if trent was telling the truth, he had a reason for not being more forthcoming before night. If I remember correct, trent was the one Today who expressed surprise of no one questioning his being alive.

Beyond that, though, more of his remaining play gives me doubts. I thought these questions from Hyper about trent's D1 play were spot on:

I find it telling when he posts he has no interest in lynching Hijack. I also find it hard to believe that the mod gives one player such broad reaching game information in their PM (the part about quoted players). I'm not even sure it fits with our existing information - why would drealmer flip neutral instead of something in quotes?

The other thing is that my town-trent arguments, mentioned above, do not necessarily have to be from a town mind-set. It could be from the mindset of neutral or mafia who gained information on another player not aligned with them.

I am good at this point voting for trent.

You're going to love reading my PM when the game is over :)

And people wonder why I'm bored...

You're Chairman

Who is iggy pop?

Current votes:
trentonlf - JMich; flubbucket
JMich - trentonlf

Not voting: HypersomniacLive; dedoporno; cristigale

Majority has not been reached.

Deadline is Friday night Eastern Daylight time.

[emphasis added]

Not sure how I should read the word I highlighted...

So, you suspect another role may be responsible for messing with alignments, making them unreliable?



Does anything in that "considering plausible options" change now that you've factored in that something you had overlooked?


Have to say that this "I'll expand on this in the next post" made me expect something more than what's in your post #874.



Can't say that this is what I wonder about when it comes to you.



*shakes head*

And this is supporting his claim how exactly?

The question itself is somewhat stupid.

"Hey, why aren't you dead??"

"I'll tell you!"

Trent bringing it up by himself actually felt even weirder. Which anti-town player in their right state of mind would waste a shot on a claimed investigator who has 2 reads that differ from the actual flips? Making sure the alibi was well-known, on the other hand, felt forced.

Of course, it all may be real, but everything that's happeing feels so weird and out of place that I really doubt it.

I'm voting for trent unless some major development occurs which I doubt at this point.

I won't do it until we are agreed that there is nothing more to talk about or the deadline comes.


*also shakes head*

I looked up iggy pop, I do recognize one of his songs (Wild child I think). Music is not really my thing though nor has it ever been. I usually listen in my car and nowhere else, and what I listen to is current top 40.

Except that none of this happened until Today. He didn't reveal anything about his results Yesterday, so it's not that unlikely for an anti-town player to take a shot at him N2 if they thought he's a town investigative role that could possibly expose them D3.

I do agree, however, that it felt a bit like he was looking for an opportunity to bring up/justify having survived N2, and reveal that one-shot passive Bulletproof.


trentonlf's two last posts make it more than clear that he's not going to answer any (of my latest) questions, but I'd like to wait for flubbucket's reply to my question, as I may have a follow up one for him.



*rereads a couple of times in disbelief*

Wow, really? Only in the car and nowhere else?

Yep only in the car, and then only half the time is the radio even on.

As I've stated already I've been upfront and honest, but it seems that's not what is wanted so I leave it to everyone to decide what they want to do. Plus, it's very interesting to see the justifications people are using because now I've already noted a few things for the future in several people's behavior ;-)

And just in case a rush happens on my lynch let me toss this out there as I'll be unavailable for the most part for the next 13-14 hours (family gathering), I didn't investigate flub last night. I only said I did to see how JMich reacted, and his total ignore of it is what I sort of expected. I can say flub's response to it was more eye opening than JMich's for sure. Anyway as I've already said JMich is who we should be lynching and now I'm pretty sure flub is someone that needs a visit to the gallows as well.

If I wake up to still be alive before I go to work tomorrow I'll be surprised so I'll say this now, good luck to anyone who's actually Town with me because I think you're screwed.

You actually are correct on this. It was just a single fuzzy read at the time. I still don't think scum wouldn't take this opportunity but in the so called killer-rich environment it's a bit more likely that someone gets too nervous and goes for it just in case.


As I said to Hijack before there is no way (usually) for non-you players to know that you are upfront and honest without having a first-hand information proving it. The bigger issue here are all of the small and not so small inconsistencies here and there that make the big picture look uglier.


Now things are getting more interesting (so much for upfront and honest, by the way :D). I don't think I understand what JMich's ignore of what was the expected result.

I also went look back to see what flub's eye-opening reaction was and I realized he has 3 very short posts for Today and none of them seems to refer to your read at all. Is this lack of acknowledgement what you mean when you say reaction in this case (I'm not arguing about semantics, just trying to understand what you mean)?