Flipping from "Not gonna do it" to "Hammer time!" can be interpreted as "Well, he's going down for sure, so I'm going to try and get some town points for killing off my scum buddy". Basically, scum thinking exactly that last sentence.

More generally: You have a reputation for getting bent out of shape when your views are questioned, and you lashing out skews other people's perception of you. Part of their skew is figuring that YOUR logic is skewed by your emotional response. It's hard to get out of (generic you) your own head, but try to see where/why the other person is saying what they are saying.

For Hyper specifically, I've noticed that he sometimes questions things that it wouldn't even have occurred to me to question. He'll ask about something and I'll see the response from the original poster confirms my interpretation was the intended meaning. This isn't meant to downplay Hyper or anything; he's wicked smart, and overall I think he's probably better at Mafia than I am. I don't know if its language, culture, or personal mindset, but its something I take into account.

In a similar vein, you may need to take a look at what people do and their preferences, and then take those into account when posting.

You've probably heard the statistic about how most communication is non-verbal (quick google search turned up one stat of 93%, probably other people have other specific numbers). When you start slapping down caps, which by convention equates to shouting and/or EMPHASIS, and then also add in some cursing, people interpret that as you being angry. It is sort of like someone shouting, mouth turned down, eyebrows down and together, swearing, having a vein pulsing in their forehead, and declaring that they aren't angry; looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc.

I've been there with "Separate the message from the medium", but a part of mafia is figuring out the medium that is sending the message ("is this town trying to help, or scum trying to screw things up?").

I understand the thoughts, believe me. I just don't think those thoughts are good scum-play, and it's not something I'd do, or at least, not something I'd have done as it was in this game.
A little Marshall McLuhan!! (I was a film student)

I do understand, but I still ask the focus to be on the message and not on the delivery, and I find those that focus on the delivery rather than the message to be ADDING to the distraction of the points at hand rather than trying to address the points at hand, and to me, that is scummy. Yes, I concede that the delivery method is a bit distracting as well, but know that my intent is to emphasize the points I'm getting at because they're not getting through and I'm frustrated at that, and making the delivery the issue skirts the real points.

Sometimes Refuge in Audacity actually works. ;)

If the communal mindset is firmly ingrained with "scum would absolutely never do X", then I know I'm not the only one to think "man, when I'm scum, I'm totally going to do X".

of course, that is why I was merely talking about this game and these specific instances

ohyes! Iwant to go back and answer HSL's "what would scum-drealmer do?"

Part of your job as the one attempting to communicate is to work with what people understand. Try to separate your message from the initial delivery. You are aware that people are affected by the delivery method, so take that into account.

Calling someone scummy because they don't accept your point does not help your case, and making such an accusation is unlikely to convince onlookers. Calling someone scummy because they don't even understand your point is even worse.

I do take that into account, certainly. I don't mean to call someone scummy because they don't understand my point. EVER. That doesn't even make sense, ya know? I only ever MEAN to say that either it's possible that 1.) you are scum so you are purposefully pretending to misunderstand me, or 2.) you're town and you misunderstand me / I wasn't clear, so let's try and figure out how/why

and when it is possibly point #1, the scum should still be trying to pretend to be #2, and work with me on trying to understand each other rather than not

You're neglecting possibility 3) I'm scum and I still don't understand you, and possibility 4) I'm town and purposefully pretending to misunderstand you (perhaps using you as a stalking horse to scum hunt).

In any event, displaying anger with someone that doesn't seem to be understanding you is more likely to deepen the rift than to shrink it.

haha as I entered those 1+2 I was like "well there's these other possibilities too I know" - so yep, I know!

and yes, I am aware, deifnitely, about what displaying anger does, and is why I'm having this conversation, to try and help others understand that I really don't mean to be angry or if I am, I'm sorry, let's try to work past it please! I'm working on it, please help me work on it too or at least bear with me while I work on it.

I don't want to get into details, but, the past 2 years of my life have been kicking my ass on a repeated basis, in really bad ways, and causing me tons of stress and anxiety and downright anger to degrees of which I've never before experienced in life. It's been...hard...so hard...and these past few days have been the worst of it, which is saying a lot because there have been numerous times where I've been like "wow, it can't get harder than this, can it?" and then it does, and then it does again

Thanks a ton, cristigale, for both hosting this specific setup and the flavour; I'm quite the fan of the older Bond films, and very much enjoyed being Jaws trying to weed out the traitors.

Big thanks to all the players, it was great fun returning to forum mafia after such a long time, and playing with you all. Special mention to adaliabooks for making the game extra fun, you're always a delight to play with, regardless of your alignment, and I'm very happy you survived till the end, more so since you also hadn't played in a long time.

Shout out to my pal trentonlf, for giving me the pleasure to pluck his feathers, one by one, after he cornered himself into town-reading me and had little to nothing to fight back with; I probably enjoyed that a tad too much. ;-D

Also thanks to gogtrial34987 for doing the sensible thing and subbing out instead of going for the easy choice of hammering adaliabooks.

And big cheers to town for overcoming the set backs and working together to avoid the scum-traps; good job, everyone! Though I must admit that scum were quite instrumental in their demise. So thanks also to Lifthrasil for falling into my trap; I didn't expect it to be so easy. And sorry you were unable to fight back due to all the set backs in the physical world, but let me say that it was all about that hot potato - so long as you weren't willing to touch it, you were going down.

I am, however, a bit sad. Looks like I will rarely, if ever, going to see a D2 from here on, and even if I do, it will probably be scum prepping me for the D2 mislynch... terrible thing to wish for JMich or flubbucket to also be in the game on town's side. ;-)


@cristigale - two things:

1. Could you clarify how scum-slots were assigned? Really curious if you did it the way I assumed or not.
2. You made a note about something interesting regarding the picks reveal for post-game. What was it?


Thanks, but too little too late. Jaws has no need for weapons now that the traitors have been dealt with. He will always safeguard SHUFUR,and will step in should the need arise, of course, but he's truly reformed, in spite that horrible thing Bond did to him N1, and looking forward to spending his remaining days peacefully by the side of the love of his life.


Yeah, you really need to work on your tango, mate.

You need to play a few more games as scum (I think you've only been scum twice if I remember rightly) and develop a scummier play style.. There is method to my madness you know (sometimes anyway), it's no use being right if you're also dead ;)

I like to walk the line between raving loon and sharp eyed townie until I have enough info to really go for it (usually role claims and flips, but actually the matrix in this game was a really good replacement, useful but not too much) and then I just dig in and don't let go until I'm lynched or people do what I want :)

I did have a lot of fun this game, but I doubt my participation levels will increase. Too much else going on and committing properly to a game takes a lot of effort (those rereads of Lift and trent were a killer!)

No, in this setup, no matter how towny you may have looked and acted, no matter how good your reads and scum-hunting may have been, after Lifthrasil flipped scum, it was still going to be RWarehall; the grid dictated it as the only viable option for the remaining scum.



This is more or less what adalibooks laid out, and I don't quite see it. I mean, I can see the angle at that specific moment, but the question for me, after the first couple WTF moments, was - and what could the planning that proceeded all this have been to let things reach this point? (This was actually my follow-up question, but I decided against shifting attention to drealmer7 at that point, and see how trentonlf would react down the road).

I mean, Lifthrasil didn't get under suspicion and fire out of the blue on Mar 29, right? Scum had 24/7 chat, and even after taking into account that it may not have been possible for them to utilise it to its full potential and capacity, there had been ample time to discuss how things looked, where they may lead to and come up with a contingency plan. So, what was this plan? Let things get out of hand while drealmer7 kept "drealmering" hard, then make a 180 at the last moment for town cred? And then what? Hope to WIFOM it to hell and back to survive the lynch? Because, no matter how I looked at things, I couldn't see anyone willing to give him town cred for that hammer.

I concluded that it was more likely town-drealmer7 being... you know, drealmer7, and giving scum a most unexpected gift with that hammer. And trentonlf coming into the game D3 with that, otherwise good, question to drealmer7, sealed it for me.


Heh.



My comment was quite in jest, really. Except for the part about JMich and flubbucket. ;-P

I don't consider myself an experienced player - I believe I haven't played more than 10 games in total (and I was killed N1 in Lifthrasil's S.T.A.L.K.E.R. game, so does that one even count?), and it's true that I have only a couple of scum-games under my belt, and I don't really count the all-scum game (one of my favourites, still an atypical setup), Still, I try to adjust my play to each setup and who the other players in it are.

For this game in particular, being my expected town-self was a conscious decision (bler144 managed to scum-read me, anyway) - with no PRs, shifting from one's expected/perceived town-meta was a no go, imo. I went for making it hard enough to be mislynched, and trying not to cause (much) reason to be considered for the N1 NK; reading the scum-chat, I think I did a good enough job at both.



Since drealmer7 is reaching out, and did name me specifically, I will say a few words, if he still wants me to, even though Bookwyrm627 covered things pretty nicely.

You can ask Drealmer, but we're human. It's not the way we process communication... so really, you shouldn't ask.

Still, there's a real easy alternative for emphasis, just use bold instead of caps. That alone can do wonders...

Holy shit I guess the second scum right
Sorry for dropping out, my computer had broken for the third time in three months.

1. I rolled for the first mafia slot and the rolled again for the second slot. For the first mafia slot, everyone had a equal chance of rolling mafia. There is slight chance someone could be eliminated from this roll if every other player submitted them as a pick with a different player. That wasn't the case. Once the first goon was determined, the second roll was narrowed down to the players who could still be a partner.

I believe in the other game, they made a list of all possible pairs, eliminated the picks from the list of pairs and then rolled once for a pair.

2. Thanks for the reminder. I found it interesting that in both games, town was arguing about how to reveal the picks and then one of the scum team just up and revealed. Trent in this case. That part played out almost identically between the two games.

Actually I don't think it is possible to eliminate anyone completely. Each player can only choose another player once, and can't choose themselves so the most any single player can be chosen is 8 times leaving one possible pair.

That's the system I was thinking of, though I didn't read the other game much.

I don't think it's actually that unusual, it was basically what made me sure trent was scum. Scum want to seem townie, so what better way then to get in first and start the reveal of picks. It also means you can't duplicate as you're the first reveal. Plus if there is a better way to reveal the picks that hurts scum then they will prefer getting the picks out in the open quickly before town can find a better way.