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Slay your way in Mandragora: Whispers of the Witch Tree, an amazing action RPG set in a dark fantasy world – coming soon on GOG!

Battle monsters across a 40+ hour story, master six unique Classes, craft hundreds of useful items, and explore the secrets of an expansive, interconnected world.

WIshlist it now!
Well, it looks they are very interested in our information.
From EULA: "...such as automatic collection and processing of screenshots of your screen when the Game is launched and the game's window is not minimized to ensure users’ compliance with the relevant User Documentation...."
I am sure this is necessary.

PASS.
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Tanstaafl: Well, it looks they are very interested in our information.
From EULA: "...such as automatic collection and processing of screenshots of your screen when the Game is launched and the game's window is not minimized to ensure users’ compliance with the relevant User Documentation...."
I am sure this is necessary.

PASS.
This looks like a copy-paste from Steam.
If this game truly launches here, they will offer offline installers which technically shouldn't connect online to share any kind of data, if it does, oh well...

.. . . . ..
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mqstout: No. Frame-perfect inputs cannot be trained for the majority of people. The latent physical ability is not there. Just like I cannot -- and mind you, my roommates tried -- could never play a rhythm game [same basic skill]. And an implicit, purely physical talent that can be honed if you have it. But if your synapses don't fire with that speed and precision, you're never going to get it.

It's also why I gave up on fighting games, which I used to enjoy. But then they all moved to very frame-perfect inputs to counter ever-so-subtly [if at all] telegraphed moves and preprogrammed combos... instead of general strategies that could be combined. EDIT: E.g., Soul Calibur 4 made huge parts of the game and multiple characters about "just inputs", which require frame-or-adjacent-perfect inputs (so 1/20th of a second precision).
Well, but that depends on how the game in question is made. What timing windows, telegraphs, animations and sounds cues it uses. And you really can't tell all that from just there being a parry mechanic and knowing no details. And to be honest, very, very few games require actual frame perfect timings. The only place you will really need those is competitive multiplayer games. And in single player, it is extremely unlikely. You seem to have went 100% with the marketing blurb of "dodge, parry, and strike with perfect timing to avoid a pitiful fate". We have no idea what the "perfect timing" entails here.

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mqstout: Aaaaaand, even if we go with your assumption that it can be trained.... that doesn't reduce that it would be disrespectful to the player that they have to study hard and grind it out a ton to have even basic success.
Reaction time itself is questionable. But you 100% can learn the AI behavior, patterns, attack animations/timings etc. Having played a ton of games with those mechanics, I usually end up being able to go through them mostly on auto-pilot (especially souls-likes) despite usually having a "struggle period" near the beginning. You are not going against an unpredictable player that will always adapt to what you are doing, but an AI with pre-set behavior and attack patterns. You can learn those at any point in your life, it might just take longer as you get older. You only have to "study hard and grind it out a ton to have even basic success" in competitive multiplayer. Because yes, there, every single little thing (including milliseconds) matters.

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mqstout: As to your 100: No, I promise you, it's not. I've been through it. A lot. Back-in-the-day, when these mechanisms actually had human-possible windows in which you could do things, and animations were actually grokable, sure! But nowadays, no -- the windows they have are such that that my eyes and fingers are not able to respond that quickly. And the animations are either so subtle (that it's straining even to see), or [and this is the current trend] are so over-exaggerated and everything is so "everything sways and swirls this way and that way" it's impossible to tell one thing from the next and when one might even be able to parry, let alone do so.
That is, again, game dependent. But most single player games do not have these "inhuman" timing requirements you speak of (have yet to run into one). Badly designed animations can absolutely be a thing. Visual bloat and noise can also be a thing. But all that is up to the game designers to get done right and will thus vary game by game. I guess I have an issue with the generalizing statements more than anything else. Not all parry mechanics are the same and shying away from a game simply because it has one just feels strange to me.

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Cavalary: mqstout put it in more detail, but I'll just say you try training that as you get older. Or for people with, say, arthritis in fingers or other such issues.
It's also a reason why top esports players tend to be under 30.
Or, on another note, why racing drivers tend to get worse and retire from sprint series around their mid 30s. Can last in endurance even in their 50s, in some cases even beyond, albeit not at the top level anymore, so it's not a matter of overall fitness, but reaction time worsens and when each fraction of a second matters and there's less time to make up for it in other ways, the result is obvious.
But we are not talking about competitive e-sports here, but single player games. When you pit 2 people against each other under the exact same conditions (like a fighting game), you will get dominated by the more responsive person. Being 50 and simply having slower reaction time will prohibit you from being the best, yes. But competitive multiplayer is an entirely different world from single player games, where you are facing an AI with pre-set behavior, patterns and attack animations. Those can be learned at any point in life really, it's just a matter of how easily (or difficult). And also varies on a game by game basis. I have yet to encounter a single player game, where miliseconds would be the difference between success and failure.

The most important thing for this kind of games is pattern recognition, first and foremost.
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Cavalary: On the topic of this game in itself, it does mention different difficulties for different skill levels, so maybe that offers options, no idea, but yep, when I see soulslike I stay clear, there's no enjoyment in getting your ass kicked time and time again and needing physical skills you may simply not have to play a game. If I'm doing well enough mentally, there may be a thrill and enjoyment in overcoming mental challenges, as long as they're fair, a matter of thinking things through and coming up with proper tactics, strategy, solutions, without it all collapsing around you despite you doing things right because of things like RNG or cheating AI, but when it's a physical challenge, reflexes, reaction time, precision, I'm out.
Fair, not every game is for everyone.
Post edited 3 days ago by idbeholdME
This game looks intriguing on its own. Then factor in the Septicflesh connection, and Brian Mitsoda writing; I feel beyond sold on this!
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idbeholdME: lots
Look, I'm just speaking on experience. It used to be true, what you're saying. But the current zeitgeist in gaming is player-exclusionary ultra-precise parrying, and "fuck off, this isn't your game" if you can't do that. And it really sucks. I'm hoping this game doesn't do that.

It's a lot like the obnoxious QTEs were a decade back... junking up every game, for no good reason. Except some misguided developers thought, "look, increased interactivity!"
Post edited 2 days ago by mqstout
Great art style, too bad it's yet another dull, dodge-roll spamming title, I'll pass.
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mqstout: Look, I'm just speaking on experience. It used to be true, what you're saying.
Having been gaming from the late 90s until today (so also a lot of experience), it still is. In truth, I find games much more accessible these days than the insane platformers of old for example, with their pixel perfect jumps, time limits and whatnot.

But back to the game in question here, definitely wishlist material to me. Seems like a darker and harder Trine.
Post edited 2 days ago by idbeholdME
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Bankai9212: Thing is any game that's challenging is called a soulslike. It's why I'm sick of the term games can be challenging in different ways.
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mqstout: And a lot of them took the wrong message from "Souls" games (which I don't laud like others do either): They hide mechanisms, don't ever explain anything (sometimes even lie), make things obtuse for no good reason, and generally have artificial anti-player difficulties (can't pause, all the perfect-timing requirements, mega death punishments, grind requirements, one-shot "gotchas!" like traps and enemies that spawn, etc). Nothing fun about it. Not real "challenge" that's fun. Moments created for the game designers to feel superior rather than for the player to feel good about surpassing.

...I'm playing Blashphemous 2 right now and they wrecked the guilt system over the original. You don't clear it all when you get your corpse but MUST pay money to "confess" to clear it. And you've got compounding defense debuffs until you do. It guzzles money and makes it so you can't focus on learning a boss' patterns. Very subtractive, anti-player.
eh, not the major money in't in short supply and I think you get a figure to lessen or reduce it.
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mqstout: And a lot of them took the wrong message from "Souls" games (which I don't laud like others do either): They hide mechanisms, don't ever explain anything (sometimes even lie), make things obtuse for no good reason, and generally have artificial anti-player difficulties (can't pause, all the perfect-timing requirements, mega death punishments, grind requirements, one-shot "gotchas!" like traps and enemies that spawn, etc). Nothing fun about it. Not real "challenge" that's fun. Moments created for the game designers to feel superior rather than for the player to feel good about surpassing.

...I'm playing Blashphemous 2 right now and they wrecked the guilt system over the original. You don't clear it all when you get your corpse but MUST pay money to "confess" to clear it. And you've got compounding defense debuffs until you do. It guzzles money and makes it so you can't focus on learning a boss' patterns. Very subtractive, anti-player.
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dnovraD: Or worse, they conflate tedium with difficulty. Darkest Dungeon and FTL come to mind.

Darkest Dungeon's devs made the mistake of listening to the hardcore nerds who thought you should pluck the rose by the sharpest thorns in a clasped tight grip, meaning that with every patch more and more obstacles were added to the game that the player simply couldn't solve for because you can't see an invisible trap that says, "Character 3 dies of Scholasticism, no saves."

FTL has the fun problem of you knowing exactly what needs to be met to overcome obstacles, but due to the wiles of the dice, being left resource starved, even if you have an exact build to clear the galaxy and the final boss otherwise. No scrap, no fuel! Screw you!
Those are rogue likes though, they are designed in a way where RNG can get you killed.
Post edited 2 days ago by Bankai9212