Nm..

Why can't Gwent be offline Gwent?

So...? Just because it's necesseary doesn't mean it's no longer DRM. This argument with you looks more or less like this:

Person 1: I prefer weapons that don't need ammunition, like swords.
Person 2: But guns need ammunition to function as designed. Therefore the ammunition they need does not count as ammunition, and you should consider guns ammo-free, just like swords!

If you are saying a homemade rocket and a 9mm bullet are no different from one-another and should be treated so exactly the same that even the concept of of giving them a different name for that purpose. Then yes, you are being a moron. I do not play your stupid word games. I am not making the distinction because I feel it's a fun thing to do. As I said the distinction is needed to separate the functional requirement of an online competitive game with collection and trade system(s), and the bullshit Hitman and Cyberpunk are doing.

I'm calling out a false equivalence not just playing word games. And is the objective is "all DRM is bad because it does X" and pointing out "This doesn't do X, it clearly doesn't belong in this list, so lets put it in a different title," is entirely fitting.

By the By: If you want to demand ALL offline lockout, for any reason, regardless of reason or follow-through, to be the definition for DRM, you should go tell people how Denuvo is totally not a DRM, along with the other DRMs that aren't online.

No, you're playing some other game. I think it's called "trolling".

Ok, but how is that relevant to anything here? It's still DRM. Whether it's one kind of DRM, or another kind of DRM is completely irrelevant to this topic.

I've no idea where you're getting any of this nonsense. Saying that all online lockouts are DRM in no way implies there can't be different kinds of DRM. Saying that both golden delicious and granny smith apples are fruit doesn't mean bananas aren't.

They are both forms of DRM, so in that sense and at that level, they are equivalent.

Ostriches and eagles are both birds, despite the fact that they are also different in many ways. Those differences don't prevent them both being categorized as birds, at a high level. At an even higher level, birds and worms are both animals.

A game requiring an online connection to function by virtue of its design does not prevent it being classified as DRMed. Any more than a bird that needs feathers to keep warm prevents it from being classified as a bird.

It's hard to find even an ounce of logic in your arguments.

So the alternative is to not get new games and lose access to all the DRM free games drom here?

Give it up, my dude. These guys are already set in their ways. You won't be able to convince any of them on their home turf.

So again, there is no difference between the actions taken by Hitman, and the actions taken by Guild Wars 2. TF2 is no different than anything with Denuvo, because it's ALL DRM, it deserves to be treated as no different from another, and I'm just a troll for even pointing out that we shouldn't put this anywhere near the same category.

Come on dude. I know you're hard on the DRM discussion but are seriously saying Gwent should be outright barred from being sold on this storefront because it has any kind of offline lockout. Are you seriously saying Gwent and Guild Wars 2 deserve the same bullet at Hitman and Cyberpunk. Because the entire statement that started this was "please do not include Gwent in that list as if it isn't any difference from Hitman, they are clearly different scenerios.

Look, if you hate the concept of online requirements for -anything- to the degree you want ot barred to sell and MMO on this storefront fine, but that is NOT the scandel going on regarding Hitman. Please stop equating this shit. And the only way to do this, is to stop the people putting Gwent on the same list as Hitman. You don't have to agree with my thought on Synthetik, but at least give MMOs and games like TF2 the distinction they need to function.

maybe an esports title needs always online, but realistically with the amount of money pumped into esports they should of made their own specific gated titles because it isn't really common gaming if they are trying to make it into an olympic like event.
Fact is all of the titles that are claimed necessary to have an online connection would be fine supporting LAN play except companies like scrott^lyhkers willing to suck up a status quo of DRM infestation in order to push the narrative of there is nothing that exists without drm.

If GOG shuts down the Gwent servers, does the game cease to function? Then it is DRM. Gwent should not be sold on a DRM-free store. Sorry that the DRM having a different extra function blinds you to that. No one is claiming that DRM has no function; no, its that the superfluous functions don't matter because it is DRM on a store that (used to) pride[s] itself on being DRM-Free. I see your point, and now I've explained Time4Tea's point.

It seems you have a problem with reading comprehension. As I said rather clearly in my previous post: they can all be categorized as FORMS OF DRM, despite the fact that they have some differences, when you take a closer look at a lower level of detail. Of course, at a high level they can and should all be categorized as DRM.

I strongly believe that all forms of DRM are insidious and unethical and do not belong on a storefront that claims to be 'DRM-free'.

'Any kind of offline lockout' is the understatement of the century. It is a fully online-only game that is packed full of DRM and microtransactions. Is there any part of the game that works at all offline? No, therefore it has absolutely no place whatsoever on GOG.com.

Yes, precisely. That same bullet that says 'DRM' on it. Pack them all in the same wagon and set fire to it. If they contain DRM, then they need to either be fixed or go. (having said that, Cyberpunk should obviously be an easy fix)

There is a reason there are no MMO games sold on GOG.com (aside from GWENT), and it's a good one. At least GOG has the good sense to recognize that MMORPGs are of course DRMed (they are probably the most DRMed form of game imaginable). I will at least give them that credit.

In morality yes I agree, Lan connection(or fake Lan connections) should be legal. But....Lan is not a particularly common thing people do in todays market, at all. Even virtual Lans are readily available, and takes extra resources. It' be giving a large amount of development time and network security developers just to run a gamemode that .001% of your players actually play. The lack of Lan mode is born from the unilateral impracticality of making them in larger scale games.

Don't get me wrong I think Lan connection is laudable. I will vie for it and praise it anytime it appears, and will always recommend land operated multiplayer. But, I can't in good conscious order that to be the standard, to spend money into and develop and secure a system a scant handful of people will even know how to use, let alone actually use. If you want Lan back, push the market to use the old model of seeking out players using discussion forums, IRC chats, and other sites, instead of depending on a collected and networked list.

And that gets even more complex with an MMO that has collection unlock features like TCGs and anything with in-game trading which has item validation to worry about like, well, every MMORPG and any game with in-game trade systems, which can't even tolorate Lan due to the risk for hacking.

The alternative is to make use of your own criteria, and with common sense, judge which ones are your DRM Free sites and games fitting better with your needs and convenience. Not theirs. Or you will end trapped in too narrow minded spaces, a list of enemies and suspects too big and a too wide concept of DRM everywhere,
To be actively against DRM shall not be enough for some people.

But it's only a humble advise you can overlook if you prefer.

greetings

You could have stopped here. This is the only line you need. I told you that I do not with to isolate MMOs and multiplayer framework games like TF2 from GoG. I am not so obsessed I say "full offline without compromise or nothing." I want a distinction made. If you truly hate the very concept of every having an online connection that you scorn even the concept of an MMO, you have done what I asked and made clear your standing.

But sir, I disagree. I will not downvote you, nor will I attack you. I'll call your standard stupid, ridiculous even, but it is all I can do. I hope in future you not waste time and just make THIS standard clear. "Even MMOs, purely online multiplayer that can't even function with Lan, let alone offline, does not belong on GoG." It would save everyone a lot of time and energy. And in that case making a distinction between an MMO and Hitman is indeed nothing but word games.

But I am not like you; I do not share this ideal you have. So stop putting it on me and using it demand I'm just playing word games. I make the distinction, between I do not lob MMOs and competitive multiplayer in the same breath as the crap that Hitman is doing. One is by necessity, one is flatly malicious loophole abuse and/or false advertising on the part of IO. I make the distinction for a reason, not just to play word games.

and yes yes, I did notice your post Mr. Paladin. This applies to you as well.


Edit: To ask everyone who cares. What is DRM. What to do you define as DRM. and I remind you, the vast majority of people consider DRM to include Denuvo, a wholely offline affair. I would define it as:: any program or sub-routine which impedes the activation and operation of my game, in either performance of design, to no purpose other than purchase validation. That means that Denuvo, anti-piracy mods or settings, and online logins like steamworks, are all included.

Don't try and cheat and give 2 definitions either. One sentence only. And yes, I gave only one sentence.