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Socratatus: It`s not often that I am accused of not being black. I was not even going to respond to such a retarded insult.

But I guess it suits some of you who cannot comprehend that a black man can think outside of his own world, that a black man can think from other points of view, not his own. You think black men are simple savages. So I can`t possibly be black.

I am now seeing a new, very dark side of these `progressive liberals` of today. You are the true racists. You see blacks as inferior, incapable of defending themselves or others.

Shame on those of you who think you can dare talk this way about a black man who expresses a concern. Racism, true racism, is alive and well today from you types. For shame.

p.s. And I am truly African-type black, not even mixed race, even though in your foolishness you won`t believe it.
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amok: to but this to rest - lack of representation in one single game is not racism. racism is systematic. white male is NOT under systematic racism just because they are not represented in one game. In fact, with this approach every single game in existence is racist, as there are no single game which include all possible races. You may even say it is refreshing that for once white male is among those not included.

You may as well have argued that this game is racist against Inuits, Sami, Mongol, Aboriginal, Sioux and any other ethnicity not included.
What? Some of you really do some hamster wheeling to excuse clear racism. Whatever happens elsewhere does not condone what happens here. Like I said, i`m black, I know racism and have even complained about it, but right now I feel racism should be attacked if it happens to whites (or any one else) too, not just blacks. Also I don`t see any other race not included, every race type can be made except for anyone with Blonde hair.

You don`t even really deal with the issues I put across, most of you don`t.

I have been more honest and said more to try and communicate a situation and most of you (with the good few who understand) have said nothing excpet to try and shut me up cos you don`t want a black man to speak against the narrative.

We`re supposed to act like victims, right?

Well, get ready, things are changing, more people are thinking like me and beginning to speak out.
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tinyE: Nice thread. :P
Be careful. The color of that dumpster I mean trash recepticle I mean refuse container might offend some people.
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amok: to but this to rest - lack of representation in one single game is not racism. racism is systematic. white male is NOT under systematic racism just because they are not represented in one game. In fact, with this approach every single game in existence is racist, as there are no single game which include all possible races. You may even say it is refreshing that for once white male is among those not included.

You may as well have argued that this game is racist against Inuits, Sami, Mongol, Aboriginal, Sioux and any other ethnicity not included.
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Socratatus: What? Some of you really do some hamster wheeling to excuse clear racism. Whatever happens elsewhere does not condone what happens here. Like I said, i`m black, I know racism and have even complained about it, but right now I feel racism should be attacked if it happens to whites (or any one else) too, not just blacks. Also I don`t see any other race not included, every race type can be made except for anyone with Blonde hair.

You don`t even really deal with the issues I put across, most of you don`t.

I have been more honest and said more to try and communicate a situation and most of you (with the good few who understand) have said nothing excpet to try and shut me up cos you don`t want a black man to speak against the narrative.

We`re supposed to act like victims, right?

Well, get ready, things are changing, more people are thinking like me and beginning to speak out.
I deal with racism when it happens, this is not it. as I said, lack of representation in one single game is not racism.

If it racism then explain to me why Metal Gear Solid is not racist as there are no Inuits there? Or why Resident Evil is not as it do not have any Sami? and so on and so forth.
Post edited April 28, 2018 by amok
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dtgreene: The vast majority of games with characters (that is, excluding games like Pong and Tetris) have a male main character,
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LootHunter: Do you actually understand that games like Pong and Tetris ARE majority?
What I am saying here is that I am restricting the discussion for those games where the discussion makes sense. Issues of sex and race only make sense for the discussion if there are characters in the game; it doesn't make sense to talk about racism or sexism in games like Pong, Tetris, or TIS-100. There needs to be something that the discussion can apply to.

It's the same reason it doesn't make sense to talk about the ecology of a lifeless planet (assuming it is indeed lifeless), the factorization of irrational numbers, or any number of things that don't apply.
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Socratatus: What? Some of you really do some hamster wheeling to excuse clear racism. Whatever happens elsewhere does not condone what happens here. Like I said, i`m black, I know racism and have even complained about it, but right now I feel racism should be attacked if it happens to whites (or any one else) too, not just blacks. Also I don`t see any other race not included, every race type can be made except for anyone with Blonde hair.

You don`t even really deal with the issues I put across, most of you don`t.

I have been more honest and said more to try and communicate a situation and most of you (with the good few who understand) have said nothing excpet to try and shut me up cos you don`t want a black man to speak against the narrative.

We`re supposed to act like victims, right?

Well, get ready, things are changing, more people are thinking like me and beginning to speak out.
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amok: I deal with racism when it happens, this is not it. as I said, lack of representation in one single game is not racism.

If it racism then explain to me why Metal Gear Solid is not racist as there are no Inuits there? Or why Resident Evil is not as it do not have any Sami? and so on and so forth.
Straw man. And no, I won`t explain, use your brain for once and figure it out. You have done nothing on your side to earn that effort from me.
Post edited April 28, 2018 by Socratatus
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dtgreene: What I am saying here is that I am restricting the discussion for those games where the discussion makes sense.
No, you are making an ommission, that mislead lots of people. When you say that "majority of games" feature only male protagonist (or white protagonsit or whatever), people who hear (or read) you naturally picture how 90% of games "force white maleness" on player. And thus they totally see how huge "gender bias" is.

Hoverver in reality most games don't even have protagonist. And of those that have many feature non-human protagonist, sometimes even without clear gender. Or there are games where you control a vehicle and any details of protagonist are unspecified.

So in most games the question of player's identity is non even present. So if you are a member of any "marginal" group you can easily play without any "forced identity" on you.
Holy defecation, Batman. You guys actually played the "You're not a real POC" card. Unbelievable.

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Socratatus: Straw man. And no, I won`t explain, use your brain for once and figure it out. You have done nothing on your side to earn that effort from me.
What with you being a Britbong & all, there's a decent possibility you vacation in the south of Portugal. If that's the case, hit me up, bud. I'd love to have a few beers with you.
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BlueMooner: I did not say that. Please re-read my posts.
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LootHunter: You literally saying this right now.
Except, I'm not. I am literally telling you you're mistaken. Feel free to quote where I said that "one white person has obligations to right wrongs that another white person did". I don't know if the confusion here is a language barrier, or if you're trolling, or something else.

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LootHunter: Look, if you think that because of the problems of minorities and racism bashing developer, who has only white people in his game, is more justified then bashing developer who has only black people in his game, you essentially force each developer to make up for problems of minorities you mentioned.

You literally say that if I'm a developer, than I must have black characters because million other games have only white characters.
You need to look up what "literally" means, as you are using it incorrectly. And once again, no, what you claim is not what I'm saying.

I haven't said that any white person must make up for other whites, or that devs must include certain groups. Are you arguing just to argue?
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dtgreene: What I am saying here is that I am restricting the discussion for those games where the discussion makes sense.
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LootHunter: No, you are making an ommission, that mislead lots of people. When you say that "majority of games" feature only male protagonist (or white protagonsit or whatever), people who hear (or read) you naturally picture how 90% of games "force white maleness" on player. And thus they totally see how huge "gender bias" is.

Hoverver in reality most games don't even have protagonist. And of those that have many feature non-human protagonist, sometimes even without clear gender. Or there are games where you control a vehicle and any details of protagonist are unspecified.

So in most games the question of player's identity is non even present. So if you are a member of any "marginal" group you can easily play without any "forced identity" on you.
What I am saying is that the majority of games *with characters* have male protagonists; I am explicitly excluding games without characters from the discussion. A game without characters has as much relevance to this discussion as, say, a tomato or the number 2.
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BlueMooner: I haven't said that any white person must make up for other whites, or that devs must include certain groups
So, if I'm a white developer and make a game with only white characters, my game is not racist?
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dtgreene: What I am saying is that the majority of games *with characters* have male protagonists; I am explicitly excluding games without characters from the discussion.
Good. And you should also clarify if you mean "have male protagonist" or "have only male protagonist".
Post edited April 28, 2018 by LootHunter
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amok: as I said, lack of representation in one single game is not racism.
Out of curiosity, when is lack of representation racism then?
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tinyE: Nice thread. :P
Here Tiny, would you pass these out? I brought enough for everybody.
Post edited April 28, 2018 by BlueMooner
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dtgreene: What I am saying is that the majority of games *with characters* have male protagonists; I am explicitly excluding games without characters from the discussion.
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LootHunter: Good. And you should also clarify if you mean "have male protagonist" or "have only male protagonist".
Those with only male protagonists vastly outnumber those with only female protagonists.

Of course, there are games where you can choose to play a male or a female character (and rarely, a non-binary character, but that isn't common). With that said, I have seen games where you create your character, but that character has to be male (Eschalon Book 1 comes to mind); I have not, however, seem any games that force you to create a female character.
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dtgreene: I have seen games where you create your character, but that character has to be male (Eschalon Book 1 comes to mind); I have not, however, seem any games that force you to create a female character.
I recall older games where, even when you did create a female char, NPCs still talked to you as if you were male: "Please my lord, you must help us!", "Excuse me sir, would you be interested in marrying my daughter?"