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General discussionAt what point does "Hard" become "Unreasonable enough to cheat"?(98 posts)(98 posts)
(98 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 22, 2023
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idbeholdME: In Shattered Stell, the game is actually impossible to beat on the hardest difficulty. It doubles all enemy spawns, which causes several of the escort missions to become impossible, because the convoy gets destroyed before you can even reach it and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. The game was obviously not tested at that difficulty, because it also doubles any objective related enemies and only one of the objective targets counts towards completing that objective.
I have actually finished that game a long time ago (the CD version)... so I am wondering if I really didn't choose the hardest difficulty then, or was the version I played different, or something like that?

I do recall it being very hard at times, especially the last mission where you fought the big "boss spider". I think I managed that last mission with some tactic that did feel like cheating, ie. taking advantage of some glitch and sheer luck: I think I blew a big hole in the ground with some big missiles, the boss dropped there and luckily couldn't climb back up from there, and then I managed to destroy it slowly by taking potshots at it.

I did replay the GOG version some years ago too, but I think I stopped playing it as I did find some early mission too challenging. It was enough for me to think that I have already finished the game in the distant past, no need to prove myself anything more anymore. :)

I do know thought that game has lots of technical issues, e.g. if your CPU is too fast and the game runs in too high framerate, e.g. the laser weapons don't work correctly, unable to hit the enemies (you shoot through them instead), and some weird stuff like that. Fortunately, since the GOG version runs in DOSBox, it is pretty easy to modify the game speed with DOSBox settings, to find the sweet spot where the game runs just fast enough not breaking the physics (e.g. the laser weapons work).
Post edited March 22, 2023 by timppu
Posted March 22, 2023
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Crosmando: The final dungeon of Elminage Gothic. Though I didn't cheat I just dropped the game.
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dtgreene: i didn't find the final dungeon to be that bad.

On the other hand, the final post-game dungeon did make me quit after a while, but by that point I had already gotten more than my money's worth of the game.

In fact, I feel like I may replay that game at some point. (Plan is to including a brawler in my party, perhaps a faerie brawler, a build that actually looks like it could work.)

As for "unreasonable enough to cheat", I would say when the game is being not just hard, but unforgiving, and hard in the wrong way. For example:
* If the game randomly kills you, taking you back to the last save point, that might be a time to cheat.
* If the game randomly deletes your characters, then it is definitely time to cheat, or at least find ways to copy the save file to protect it from the game. (Wizardry games will, in certain circumstances, randomly delete your characters, and it's not a bug. Fortunately, this doesn't happen in Wizardry 6-8 (or in Wizardry 4, for that matter).
* In Might & Magic 2, the penalty for stealing Murray's treasure, if you save before realizing what happened, might drive one to cheat.

There's also another reason to cheat: To get an interesting gameplay experience that's unlikely to come up normally. For example, going back to Wizardry, hex editing a new character's class to Lord or Ninja would qualify. (I suggest creating the character as a Fighter for Lord, or a Thief for Ninja, as that will likely give you an appropriate amount of starting HP and no spells you shouldn't have.)

Also, worth noting that I don't consider looking things on the internet to be cheating, and I typically don't count glitch exploits as cheating, either.
I was referring to Ibag Tower when I said final dungeon. Cyclanos wasn't that hard, though I did have to use Miracles to defeat him. I might have tried to beat it if you could teleport inside Ibag, but being unable to was enough to make me quit.
Post edited March 22, 2023 by Crosmando
Posted March 22, 2023
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timppu: I do know thought that game has lots of technical issues, e.g. if your CPU is too fast and the game runs in too high framerate, e.g. the laser weapons don't work correctly, unable to hit the enemies (you shoot through them instead), and some weird stuff like that. Fortunately, since the GOG version runs in DOSBox, it is pretty easy to modify the game speed with DOSBox settings, to find the sweet spot where the game runs just fast enough not breaking the physics (e.g. the laser weapons work).
There is an issue with collision detection. Some weapon projectiles will just fly through enemies without hitting them, unless you shoot them at a specific angle/to a specific spot. You can adjust for it but it can be quite annoying at times.

And regarding the boss, that is a common strategy :P I also used the mortar to make a "mammoth trap" which the boss fell into right after spawning. The boss is quite tough to fight normally, but I did also beat him normally later. It pretty much requires a fast and fragile mech. Anything slow is unable to dodge his attacks, which means a swift death. Had to go back to one of the very early game mechs to be able to do that. The boss was also one of the buggiest when it came to the projectile collision detection bug.

But there is yet another issue in the game, where the final vehicle you are supposed to escort stops a couple milimeters away from the spot it's supposed to reach. So the mission never ends. I had to use a cheat to end the mission and see the outro. This happens regardless of difficulty. Didn't matter how much I fiddled with DosBox.

This game would honestly benefit greatly from a remaster.
Post edited March 22, 2023 by idbeholdME
Posted March 22, 2023
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Judicat0r: Terror from the deep!
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JAAHAS: It also has this one particular enemy type that you need to interrogate to be able to eventually discover all end game tech, but if you fail to capture one alive early on in the game, it soon becomes so rare that even in easy difficulty you might never be able to finish the game. And it is not even any high ranking member of its species, so most players might have opted to make room for other, "more important" aliens in their contamination units...
Oh yeah... the infamous research tree bug, back then both me and my brother were playing the game and I kept getting in that while he was progressing normally, freaking D*** O** never showed in any mission...
And even then I didn't use any cheat.
I'm going to replay the game, I'm still afraid to go for superhuman setting.
Posted March 22, 2023
I usually cheat to cut down on time wasted on games with a lot of grinding or other tedious bull****.
Posted March 22, 2023
I was playing Ys 8 on the highest difficulty for a while until I eventually gave up and started a new game on "hard". In four hours I made it as far as I did in four days on the highest difficulty. The amount of grinding required to do just a little bit of damage is just extreme. And you usually die in one hit, so you have to get really good at dodging. I played Ys Origin too, and it was exactly the same.

I always play games on the highest difficulty, but I don't do this with Ys anymore.
Posted March 22, 2023
In Elminage Gothic, if one of those flying fish enemies ambushes you and teleports you into rock via Miracle before you can do anything, then it's time to reload, even if you're otherwise doing a no reload run.

(This is rare, but it happened to me twice when farming for a specific item on a specific floor that happens to have a lot of solid rock.)
Posted March 22, 2023
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Warloch_Ahead: At what point does "Hard" become "Unreasonable enough to cheat"?
Question: why not simply change the difficulty level from "hard" to "normal" or "easy", befor resorting to cheating?
Posted March 22, 2023
When the difficulty is clearly poorly implemented.
See : Oblivion's stupid health leveling and itemization system.

Console command : Kill is very useful
Posted March 22, 2023
The Sims games. Life is already hard enough without having to relive it again through any of The Sims games, sleep, wake up, shower, eat, work, and repeat. Miss one of those activities and by the time your sim returns from work, you'd have to pay the price for those unattended needs bars. I'd just cheat to increase the amount of money my sims have.
Posted March 22, 2023
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Warloch_Ahead: At what point does "Hard" become "Unreasonable enough to cheat"?
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BreOl72: Question: why not simply change the difficulty level from "hard" to "normal" or "easy", befor resorting to cheating?
* When the game doesn't offer this option, or the game lets you do this but not reverse that decision later (and you're worried about the game becoming too easy).
* When "normal" is too easy, and there isn't a difficulty between "normal" and "hard".
* When the difficulty is of the wrong type. (For example, cheating to get past a minigame that the player would not otherwise be able to pass, blocking access to the rest of the game.)
* When the difficult part in question is difficult regardless of the difficulty (for example, if difficulty does not affect it).

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CthuluIsSpy: When the difficulty is clearly poorly implemented.
See : Oblivion's stupid health leveling and itemization system.

Console command : Kill is very useful
In Oblivion, another useful cheat is to *lower* your level. Since enemies scale to your level, this will make enemies significantly easier to deal with, though it will mean the rewards you get won't be as good.
Post edited March 22, 2023 by dtgreene
Posted March 22, 2023
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Vinry_.: The Sims games. Life is already hard enough without having to relive it again through any of The Sims games, sleep, wake up, shower, eat, work, and repeat. Miss one of those activities and by the time your sim returns from work, you'd have to pay the price for those unattended needs bars. I'd just cheat to increase the amount of money my sims have.
The worst is when they leave puddles and dirty plates all around the house. If I was playing The Sims 4, I'd get out the murder cheats every single time one of them soiled the house. Since I play the original The Sims game, I just send them to the swimming pool.
Posted March 22, 2023
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Vinry_.: The Sims games. Life is already hard enough without having to relive it again through any of The Sims games, sleep, wake up, shower, eat, work, and repeat. Miss one of those activities and by the time your sim returns from work, you'd have to pay the price for those unattended needs bars. I'd just cheat to increase the amount of money my sims have.
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Catventurer: The worst is when they leave puddles and dirty plates all around the house. If I was playing The Sims 4, I'd get out the murder cheats every single time one of them soiled the house. Since I play the original The Sims game, I just send them to the swimming pool.
Ah yes, the classic "remove the swimming pool ladder" murders.. Lol
Posted March 22, 2023
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BreOl72: Question: why not simply change the difficulty level from "hard" to "normal" or "easy", befor resorting to cheating?
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dtgreene: * [Because] the game doesn't offer this option, or the game lets you do this but not reverse that decision later
Ok. That would be an acceptable explanation.

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dtgreene: (and [because] you're worried about the game becoming too easy).
But this would not be an explanation.
When you cheat - everything is easy. That's why you cheat.
To say "if I play on "normal" instead of cheating, I fear the game is too easy for me..." makes no sense.

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dtgreene: * [Because] "normal" is too easy, and there isn't a difficulty between "normal" and "hard".
Again - when "hard" is too hard, and "normal" is too easy...and you stay on "hard", but cheat...you could have simply played the game on "normal".
I mean: even if I'm beating a game "only" on "easy", I'm still beating the game by my own efforts.
On the other hand, if I'm resorting to cheating...I don't have to beat the game anymore...the cheats do that for me.
I am simply there to move my character around and press some buttons.
The "hard" I chose in difficulty settings, means nothing anymore, at that point.

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dtgreene: * [Because] the difficulty is of the wrong type. (For example, cheating to get past a minigame that the player would not otherwise be able to pass, blocking access to the rest of the game.)
Well, why not play the mini-game on an easier difficulty level?
And after you've beaten it - you switch back to "hard".
Cheating is not necessarily.
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dtgreene: * [Because] the difficult part in question is difficult regardless of the difficulty (for example, if difficulty does not affect it).
That sounds like bad game design to me. But I agree - cheating would be a help in that case.
Posted March 22, 2023
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Catventurer: The worst is when they leave puddles and dirty plates all around the house. If I was playing The Sims 4, I'd get out the murder cheats every single time one of them soiled the house. Since I play the original The Sims game, I just send them to the swimming pool.
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Vinry_.: Ah yes, the classic "remove the swimming pool ladder" murders.. Lol
Although if the entire household is a lost cause and not just one, remove the doors leading outside while they are all home then give them a toaster oven to play with.
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Community
General discussionAt what point does "Hard" become "Unreasonable enough to cheat"?(98 posts)(98 posts)
(98 posts)