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General discussionArmello DRM-Free Edition now available on GOG!(531 posts)(531 posts)
(531 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 30, 2016
Becoming a slightly different beast.

<span class="bold">Armello</span>, the digital tabletop/role-playing/strategy game, has now been updated and renamed to Armello - DRM Free Edition. It includes the latest fixes and updates, plus all these lovely animals who will eagerly stab each other with pointy things in order to become rulers of the land. Oh, and it's 25% off for six days!

This edition is a complete strategic experience and will keep receiving updates that are unrelated to DLCs or online features.

Here's what League of Geeks have to say about it (full version <span class="bold">here</span>):

"We want to ensure that whatever platforms Armello is on, we're providing the best experience that we possibly can. As Armello moves more and more into online services (like Steam inventory and more multiplayer features) and as we begin to roll out our plans for DLC, we've been working closely with GOG on an edition of Armello specific to GOG. [..]
We've had fantastic meetings with GOG about the future of Armello on the platform and although there's no way for us to provide DLC for DRM-Free users or to attempt to retain parity with the Steam version of Armello, Armello DRM-Free Edition will see features that best suit a DRM Free experience. [...]."

Get ready to join this new era of colorful animosity with <span class="bold">Armello DRM-Free Edition</span>, exclusively on GOG.com.
The 25% discount will last until September 5, 9:59 PM UTC.


https://www.youtube.com/embed/o4e5s28x7Ps
Post edited August 31, 2016 by maladr0Id
Posted August 31, 2016
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Tarhiel: Can you elaborate more on how exactly Usurpers Pack DLC (4 new character + 4 rings - or any other future DLC) can in "no way retain parity with the Steam version of Armello"?

I would be curious to hear that.

I have bought your game here, because this is my store of choice, and I feel cheated with this approach.
Indeed, it is difficult to see what the technical issue is to integrate the apparent content of this DLC ( as you say, 4 characters and 4 rings, by the way quite a limited amount of content for the money they ask for it ) . Meaning, there is something else in this DLC. If I had to guess, I'd say "adding in-game microtransactions" and "online verification of additional content ", because that's exactly what would make such a DLC impossible to deliver on GOG.

Now, what to think of it? At least, we avoid a situation a la Crusader Kings II , where the game was made Steam Exclusive after quite a lot od DLCs had already been released. Although, for CKII, we got a Steam Key to allow us to continue playing - used it but never played again or added anything anymore to the game. I'm not bothered that much by this specific game. It's on my wishlist, but I'm less likely to buy it now. But I'm a bit worried about the direction all of this is taking.
Posted August 31, 2016
I've rarely seen devs so incompetent.
First, "language selection" is a mystery to them and they assume just setting it to the system language is acceptable and now this.
What a waste of potential.

Also why do you market this as a "new era" and push it with a discount?
This is a dead game. An inferior version. A "stay far away", not a "go get it now".
All this announcement did was officially sealing the deal.
Does gog want to actively mislead people now?
Post edited August 31, 2016 by verwurster
Posted August 31, 2016
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PaladinWay: As for the network bits, I hate to defend the developer in any way, but from what I've heard that depends a lot on the game engine. A friend at work had something in an obscure game engine I can't recall now that should've been trivial to set up as peer-to-peer network so she didn't worry about it and had that late in the development cycle. However, when she got to that point found the game engine she was using had a lot built-in for the objects she was using that made basic sockets not really an option and she was stuck shoehorning in an otherwise unnecessary server (that needed way too much I/O to be a good idea) or way more rewrites than she had time for. I was honestly baffled how the game engine could've been set up that way (though I did decide it certainly deserved its obscurity). So I don't know the engine they're using, but it might not be as simple as it should be from just basic development.
Basic networking is very much summed into 3 functions, paraphrasing here.

portNum = connect(destination, flags)
send(portNum, data)
receive(portNum, &data)

Those are going to be the big parts of networking at it's core. Many of the overhead with a framework or engine simply appends all the information into a single datapacket you can send via send/receive, as it's probably serialization or codes for updating current objects rather than making new objects every time.
Posted August 31, 2016
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Kardwill: It doesn't have hotseat MP? Can't remember since i'm a SP player, but it is often a feature for "PC boardgames"
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Irenicus73: No, no version of the game currently has hotseat multiplayer, and it's not coming, either. It has to do with the way they implemented the "fuzzy turns" system, where you can freely move your camera around and play spell/trickery cards on other players' turns.

Here is the official response on that:

"The way game play works on Armello, hotseat mode wouldn't really work. Even when it's not your turn you can still play cards, watch what other players are doing and strategise. So you need to use your off-turn time to plan out your next turn as well as impact other players turns."

http://leagueofgeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=531.0
Oh, OK. It's been some time since I played. If there is stuff to be done during the other player's turn, it makes sense (although you could have splitscreen with controlers, like in Divinity : OS, but it's more complicated to implement than "simple hotseat").
Thanks for the answer
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Marioface5: Perhaps most importantly, I would like more details about the "features that best suit a DRM Free experience". Will the GOG and Steam versions become different games over time? Will GOG have features that aren't available in the Steam version?
Yeah, I'm kinda curious too. Sounds like a consolation prize in the announcement, which wouldn't really make up for missing content, but would show some welcome attention from the dev.
Post edited August 31, 2016 by Kardwill
Posted August 31, 2016
high rated
An email I got from the devs:

"Hi Kristian,

We closely monitor who engages with Armello and it's no longer viable for us to continuously update the DRM Free version of Armello. The game will continue to exist in it's current state and we're proud of how far we've been able to take it.

As online services are required to verify if any given player has access to the DLC heroes, it's not compatible with the DRM-Free version of Armello.

Thanks,


Lisy Kane
Producer"
Posted August 31, 2016
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PaladinWay: As for the network bits, I hate to defend the developer in any way, but from what I've heard that depends a lot on the game engine. A friend at work had something in an obscure game engine I can't recall now that should've been trivial to set up as peer-to-peer network so she didn't worry about it and had that late in the development cycle. However, when she got to that point found the game engine she was using had a lot built-in for the objects she was using that made basic sockets not really an option and she was stuck shoehorning in an otherwise unnecessary server (that needed way too much I/O to be a good idea) or way more rewrites than she had time for. I was honestly baffled how the game engine could've been set up that way (though I did decide it certainly deserved its obscurity). So I don't know the engine they're using, but it might not be as simple as it should be from just basic development.
Armello uses the Unity game engine.

https://madewith.unity.com/games/armello

https://unity3d.com/

No other developers have problems with DLC on this popular engine, so i don't see any obvious excuses for LoG here.
Post edited August 31, 2016 by Antoni_Fox
Posted August 31, 2016
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Kristian: As online services are required to verify if any given player has access to the DLC heroes, it's not compatible with the DRM-Free version of Armello.
What now?
Posted August 31, 2016
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Kristian: An email I got from the devs:

"Hi Kristian,

We closely monitor who engages with Armello and it's no longer viable for us to continuously update the DRM Free version of Armello. The game will continue to exist in it's current state and we're proud of how far we've been able to take it.

As online services are required to verify if any given player has access to the DLC heroes, it's not compatible with the DRM-Free version of Armello.

Thanks,

Lisy Kane
Producer"
That was the funniest thing I have ever heard .
Posted August 31, 2016
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Kristian: An email I got from the devs:

"As online services are required to verify if any given player has access to the DLC heroes, it's not compatible with the DRM-Free version of Armello."
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Skysect: That was the funniest thing I have ever heard .
Because having a simple check when connecting and saying DLC additions that are present/missing is impossible, or rather disabling DLC, or doing something similar to Starcraft and having it download the relevant data prior to play would be impossible... Or maybe upgrading the DRM-free version for free so they stay compatible?
[/sarcasm]

This... Just made me Armello to my do-not-buy list. Not to mention the already 'can't do local LAN' is bollocks.
Post edited August 31, 2016 by rtcvb32
Posted August 31, 2016
high rated
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rtcvb32: Because having a simple check when connecting and saying DLC additions that are present/missing is impossible, or rather disabling DLC, or doing something similar to Starcraft and having it download the relevant data prior to play would be impossible... Or maybe upgrading the DRM-free version for free so they stay compatible?

This... Just made me Armello to my do-not-buy list. Not to mention the already 'can't do local LAN' is bollocks.
Lazy, incompetent developers, plain and simple.
Posted August 31, 2016
high rated
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TodaysLoneWolf: It's more like purchasing and trading items like cards for spells, books and stuff that can be earned during turns and/or purchased/sold through Steam Marketplace. LoG wants to further monetize it through digital cruft that we'd all be selling for anywhere from $0.03 to $3.00, with VALVe and LoG taking their cuts. [...]

I had never witnessed an instance in which a developer just flat-out says to the effect of "VALVe is allowing us to monetize our game in ways that CDPR can't ever hope to achieve, so here's the 'best that we can do for Galaxy's limitations' version. Don't look for much in the way of further updates because it's not economically feasible to support two versions - one constantly evolving for those who'll deal with the DRM for the sake of a better experience [and who'll pay us more and more money] and one for the rest of you". [...]
Well then, this sheds a completely different light on the matter. Seems to boil down to making the most money with the least effort.


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ReynardFox: [...] Renaming it "DRM Free edition" is the most cynical, contemptible thing they could have done in the face of locking us out of DLC for the insulting, utter bullshit reasons they've given. [...]
More so given that GOG only ever sold and sells DRM-free games; it's surprising that GOG agreed to this utterly insulting and embarrassing renaming.



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Kristian: An email I got from the devs:

"Hi Kristian,

We closely monitor who engages with Armello and it's no longer viable for us to continuously update the DRM Free version of Armello. The game will continue to exist in it's current state and we're proud to take any additional revenue it may generate, and put it in the continuous expansion of the Steam version


Thanks,


Lisy Kane
Producer"
Gotcha.
Posted August 31, 2016
high rated
I saw the game on Steam and it turned out to be a micro-transactions scam fest /:
Greedy dev are the worst.
Bye-Bye my beloved pet warriors...game was fun and promising but money corrupts everything.
Post edited August 31, 2016 by Reglisse
Posted August 31, 2016
high rated
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Kristian: We closely monitor who engages with Armello and it's no longer viable for us to continuously update the DRM Free version of Armello. The game will continue to exist in it's current state and we're proud of how far we've been able to take it.

As online services are required to verify if any given player has access to the DLC heroes, it's not compatible with the DRM-Free version of Armello.
"We closely monitor who engages with Armello and it's no longer profitable for us to continously update the DRM Free version of Armello. The game will continue to exist in the cess pool it currently is and we're proud of how far we've been able to take it."


Yup they should be very proud of how they screwed up GOG customers, BS'ed their way with a crippled version and how incompetent they are at offering DLC. Very proud.

This is one company I'll never give my money to. Their every word is pure BS.
Posted August 31, 2016
I tend to be an optimistic positive guy but I have to admit that what they did here is clearly not good. And the e-mail answer they provided clearly shows that either they have no clue on how people are reacting to the news or they simply don't care (my bet is on the second one unfortunately).

When I read:
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GOG.com: "We want to ensure that whatever platforms Armello is on, we're providing the best experience that we possibly can. As Armello moves more and more into online services (like Steam inventory and more multiplayer features) and as we begin to roll out our plans for DLC, we've been working closely with GOG on an edition of Armello specific to GOG. [..]
We've had fantastic meetings with GOG about the future of Armello on the platform and although there's no way for us to provide DLC for DRM-Free users or to attempt to retain parity with the Steam version of Armello, Armello DRM-Free Edition will see features that best suit a DRM Free experience. [...]."
It still gives the impression that they'll want to provide specific features for the offline (because we know that GOG does not support online gaming) GOG version and that, although it may be sad to have a different version, we may still expect future update.

Then this:

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Kristian: We closely monitor who engages with Armello and it's no longer viable for us to continuously update the DRM Free version of Armello. The game will continue to exist in it's current state and we're proud of how far we've been able to take it.

As online services are required to verify if any given player has access to the DLC heroes, it's not compatible with the DRM-Free version of Armello.
Which can basically be translated to "we don't make enough money here so, sorry folks but we won't waste our time on GOG version anymore". And that's the worse for me. As most (all ?) of the people here, I'm not a fan of GOG version missing features but as long as I can make an informed choice, I can live with it (at least people have the choice to buy it or not - I really despise preventing choice for others when I don't like something) but here they imply something in the official communication (future updates will come) while it looks that their mind is already set on something entirely different (GOG version frozen so let it go).

Not good at all.
Posted August 31, 2016
high rated
I am curious if the curation at GOG, themselves, will respond to all of this negative press they are currently receiving here for this decision. Additionally, the devs are non-present and this is disappointing at best.

We pay a lot of money for our games and if this version of the game is going to be a stripped down version of another game, then it should have a stripped down price to match the content that we will never receive, not the exact same price as the more full and robust version.

Not addressing any of these concerns, neither from the GOG store and staff nor the developers is a poor decision at best. Face your fans and those who are loyal to you, please, so that we can continue to say that we support you in good faith and that you are looking out for us; our interests; and not simply attempting to use us to generate money while punishing us for using your service and products.
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Community
General discussionArmello DRM-Free Edition now available on GOG!(531 posts)(531 posts)
(531 posts)