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General discussionA fighting game with smart/adapting AI?(31 posts)(31 posts)
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Posted February 19, 2016
I have played a few fighting games lately, mostly Mortal Kombat series, because I like it's dark setting. I have somehow, barely made through the first two games, using some cheats (dosbox saves, Unlimited Continues) and now I am trying MK3. I love some ideas in the game - how combos are animated, fast gameplay, etc.
What bothers me however, is how the CPU plays.
Here are my thoughts about it, considering how AI was "scripted"/implemented in these three games
a ) AI plays unfair, it has a zero-time reaction to what I do if it wants it. That is, it knows my move in the same moment I perform it. This way, it can easily counter-attack, block or whatever it wants. I consider this unfair or at least fricking annoying, because this is how it works also on Easiest difficulty settings.
b ) AI follows the same schemes/script all over the time. Probably one shouldn't even call it an AI (i.e. Artificial _Intelligence_).
c ) It is really (too) hard, too fast, unforgiving. Sometimes it has moments when it stops and gives the player some time, but usually it is there to simply "DESTROY" the player as fast as possible.

I would love a fighting game, where the computer player is there to give me some fun and enjoyment out of the game and not to simply DESTROY me with it's stunning speed and zero-time reaction.

Is it that hard to implement a smart, adapting AI, that would pose a challenge to the player? That would be able to slow down or speed up at times, change tactics, try different things on the player, etc?

I like these old MK games, but AI is simply ruining the fun for me.

Is there a fighting game with "smart" and fair AI, adapting to the player's skill?
Posted February 19, 2016
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inc09nito: Is it that hard to implement a smart, adapting AI, that would pose a challenge to the player? That would be able to slow down or speed up at times, change tactics, try different things on the player, etc?
I for one would be toast because my tactic is always to find one move I love and just pound away at it. :P

Aside from my personal shortcomings though I think it would be a really cool idea and shouldn't be that hard to implement because RTS games have been doing it for a while: find your weakness and exploit it. I'm sure they could give their fighting games the ability to catch onto your tenancies and work against them.
Post edited February 19, 2016 by tinyE
Posted February 19, 2016
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inc09nito: c ) It is really (too) hard, too fast, unforgiving. Sometimes it has moments when it stops and gives the player some time, but usually it is there to simply "DESTROY" the player as fast as possible.

I would love a fighting game, where the computer player is there to give me some fun and enjoyment out of the game and not to simply DESTROY me with it's stunning speed and zero-time reaction.
It's because these were originally arcade games. The goal was to get people to die often so they put more quarters in the machine. What you want is a casual at home fighter. And they only vary between easy or difficult.

And no, there is no system like the one you want yet. You just gotta get good.
Posted February 19, 2016
Speaking of unfair AI, do you know Max Payne 2?
Man, in the same moment you open a door, you have some bullets caught, because the opponents in this game begin to shoot in the same moment you touch the door. The manual says that the game uses some "Adaptive AI", which should adapt to your skills, but in the game I only noticed, that it always played on ultimate hardcore difficulty. The enemies react so freaking fast, same moment they see you, same moment you?ll hail some bullets in your chest. Even the best trained soldiers need at least a few seconds to target and shoot at you when you appear unexpected.
Sadly, computer games are often that hard and often enemies react like no human would/could do.
Posted February 19, 2016
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Maxvorstadt: Speaking of unfair AI, do you know Max Payne 2?
Man, in the same moment you open a door, you have some bullets caught, because the opponents in this game begin to shoot in the same moment you touch the door. The manual says that the game uses some "Adaptive AI", which should adapt to your skills, but in the game I only noticed, that it always played on ultimate hardcore difficulty. The enemies react so freaking fast, same moment they see you, same moment you?ll hail some bullets in your chest. Even the best trained soldiers need at least a few seconds to target and shoot at you when you appear unexpected.
Sadly, computer games are often that hard and often enemies react like no human would/could do.
I do remember Max Payne having adaptive difficulty. If you keep dying at one point the game starts giving you painkillers.
Posted February 19, 2016
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MaximumBunny: And no, there is no system like the one you want yet. You just gotta get good.
I want to get better but I also want to have fun on the way.
Maybe what I need is a CPU opponent that would pretend to be another human-player, learning the game.
Because I know that these games are atmost fun when playing with another person. However, I play alone, so if CPU was able to pretend, that it is another human flesh, learning the game by practicing with me, making mistakes, trying to figure out moves, having a considerable reaction time and so on...
Posted February 19, 2016
That's still adaptive difficulty not adaptive AI.

Back to the topic. The AI in older fighting games was so bad that in order for it to be challenging at all it had to be simply faster than the average player. It's actually not instant because in that case you'd never be able to hit it. It's really fast but it has a built in reaction time to give you a chance. I'm not a big fighting game player but I'm pretty sure that no AI can beat a good player unless there's a difficulty setting that's simply 'GOD' and has no reaction time whatsoever.
Posted February 19, 2016
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inc09nito: I have played a few fighting games lately, mostly Mortal Kombat series, because I like it's dark setting. I have somehow, barely made through the first two games, using some cheats (dosbox saves, Unlimited Continues) and now I am trying MK3. I love some ideas in the game - how combos are animated, fast gameplay, etc.
What bothers me however, is how the CPU plays.
Here are my thoughts about it, considering how AI was "scripted"/implemented in these three games
a ) AI plays unfair, it has a zero-time reaction to what I do if it wants it. That is, it knows my move in the same moment I perform it. This way, it can easily counter-attack, block or whatever it wants. I consider this unfair or at least fricking annoying, because this is how it works also on Easiest difficulty settings.
b ) AI follows the same schemes/script all over the time. Probably one shouldn't even call it an AI (i.e. Artificial _Intelligence_).
c ) It is really (too) hard, too fast, unforgiving. Sometimes it has moments when it stops and gives the player some time, but usually it is there to simply "DESTROY" the player as fast as possible.

I would love a fighting game, where the computer player is there to give me some fun and enjoyment out of the game and not to simply DESTROY me with it's stunning speed and zero-time reaction.

Is it that hard to implement a smart, adapting AI, that would pose a challenge to the player? That would be able to slow down or speed up at times, change tactics, try different things on the player, etc?

I like these old MK games, but AI is simply ruining the fun for me.

Is there a fighting game with "smart" and fair AI, adapting to the player's skill?
Killer Instinct on Xbox One has exactly what you are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmTE4Ev_kLk
Posted February 19, 2016
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Elmofongo: Killer Instinct on Xbox One has exactly what you are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmTE4Ev_kLk
Just to clarify, it's also bound for a PC release. So no need to buy a console if you don't own one for it. It's one of the titles I'm really looking forward to along with Fable Legends. <3
Posted February 19, 2016
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Elmofongo: Killer Instinct on Xbox One has exactly what you are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmTE4Ev_kLk
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MaximumBunny: Just to clarify, it's also bound for a PC release. So no need to buy a console if you don't own one for it. It's one of the titles I'm really looking forward to along with Fable Legends. <3
That is if this game is even a decent port :P
Posted February 19, 2016
It's called "multiplayer mode".

Yes, I know that's not what you're asking and you could easily do that if you wanted to. I was just making a joke.
Posted February 19, 2016
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inc09nito: <snip>
Soul Caliber 2 (PS 2) is touted as having an adaptive AI, where it will adjust during a match based on how you are fighting. There are separate difficulty settings that control how often it attacks and defends, but I can vouch that it will adjust its tactics during a match.

At one point, just for shiggles, I turned the AI to the lowest difficulty setting and proceeded to try and win with Yoshimitsu's seppuku move (he stabs his sword through himself, also stabbing the opponent if they are right behind him; yes, it hurts you too). After a while of lining myself up with my back to my opponent and then stabbing us both, the enemy actually started moving around behind me and waiting, attempting to dodge out of the way when I started the move.
Post edited February 19, 2016 by Bookwyrm627
Posted February 19, 2016
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inc09nito: <snip>
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Bookwyrm627: Soul Caliber 2 (PS 2) is touted as having an adaptive AI, where it will adjust during a match based on how you are fighting. There are separate difficulty settings that control how often it attacks and defends, but I can vouch that it will adjust its tactics during a match.

At one point, just for shiggles, I turned the AI to the lowest difficulty setting and proceeded to try and win with Yoshimitsu's seppuku move (he stabs his sword through himself, also stabbing the opponent if they are right behind him; yes, it hurts you too). After a while of lining myself up with my back to my opponent and then stabbing us both, the enemy actually started moving around behind me and waiting, attempting to dodge out of the way when I started the move.
This sounds very interesting and like something that I'm looking for. However... PS2... I would need to emulate that.
Posted February 19, 2016
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inc09nito: This sounds very interesting and like something that I'm looking for. However... PS2... I would need to emulate that.
To be fair, I suspect most matches end before the CPU can seriously adapt. As I indicated, I was mostly screwing around at the time.
Posted February 19, 2016
Wait, did you hear the word "camper" or to "camp" someone, only after counterstrike and competitive FPSs came around...?

Mortal Kombat 1-3 era was the time this concept had been invented. Stay back and wait for the perfect chance to do that uppercut or high-backwards kick! Learn to be a proper camper in your fighting games, son!
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General discussionA fighting game with smart/adapting AI?(31 posts)(31 posts)
(31 posts)