Hardware rule: There is always something coming out at any late point that may offer "more bang for the coins" but while the coins are in theory near unlimited my time is not unlimited and fact is... lets say i would have waited 2 years, which is a massive waiting time... i may have gotten 3090 TI performance at a price of perhaps 800 instead of 1300, yet i did not pay only for the "performance". Performance is only one of several factors playing a role. Another factor is "the general quality of a card"... unfortunately there is lot of junk cards on the market and the manufacturers are NOT going to use the same quality parts on a 800 coin GPU compared to a 1300 coin GPU, this is another myth that need to be denunked, because simply wrong. Those manufacturers are not "Santa Claus"... they will cut down on the price of parts as soon as a card simply got to less margin for them. As the people usually only care its performance and rarely take a closer look at its components... if so... high priced cards only.

1. I paid more for the best quality
2. I paid more so i can have it 2 years sooner
3. Yes, there was games on GoG in 2022 that was already demanding on a 3090 TI.

All the myths debunked and i think 500 coins is a fair price for getting the best quality and able to play it 2 years sooner.

If ya want to save up as much as possible... i am sure there are many ways on "how to do that" but thats not what this topic is all about... it may need another topic which is focused on "how to get the best performance for the lowest coins possible"... or... "if you actually need any peformance at all and if you could make games even run on a potato-toaster gotten from the second hand market"...

All good and fine but this is not what this topic is here for.

Just because something is cheaper doesn't always mean it's going to be of less quality. Over time production methods improve and older card models become cheaper to produce. Also as newer models with better performance come along the older models drop in price...even the quality made ones(aside: I actually made my entire PC for under $900 and it runs every game I throw at it on Ultra settings @ 1080p. There's a good chance it could do so at 1440p and up as well, but I lack the proper monitor for such things).

Back to the topic:
I think the 5090 is beyond what most gamers would currently need and while nice and shiny it's way beyond my budget.

There is not any hint that the 4090 are now dropping in prices, the price is even going up now; astounding... near 2 years on the market and a near unbreakable price, guess Nvidia is a "master chess player".

The main issue is, that there is simply to less capacity to produce oversized chips and Nvidia is using those capacities for the 5090 now. So, the 4090 demand is higher than the supply, and indeed... many shops are now trying to do "scalping" at a time of low supply.

Regarding: The "dropping hardware prices over time because of higher efficiency producing them"-theory: According to Sony the prices for manufacturing are not dropping one little bit, rather going up. The only reason why we currently have low hardware prices is because the industry is in a crisis and are accepting a very low margin down to the point they got close to zero margin. This will not last forever... so i predict it will go up soon once again.

Regarding your 1k build: Grats on that, i mean if it works for you i guess "money well spend". It would not be sufficient for my demands but after all, it always depends on the individual demand and remember: There is much more than just raw performance... we humans are complex beings with a psyche, heart and mind.

I meant more so hardware in general...price usually (though not always) drops on old tech as new tech is made to supplant and replace it, and then back up again as older tech becomes harder to find(due to production being ceased).

Yeah, we often like to spend on nice things like money is going out of style. I should know, having done it myself on some things.

Sometimes i got the impression: Most people seem to hate money, which is seen by so much unnecessary spending on way to much stuff they simply have no real use for or only a short term use, not any long term. In this case they should not feel surprised if their money is leaving them.

Most humans are sheer "consumers" and they enjoy to CONSUME way more than owning it! For this reason, a hardware simply need to perform... nothing else, and the game need to perform as well... for as long as their rather short term feeling is making them feel satisfied with.

Humans rarely think long term and this is the place where a true "investment" takes place. A good Investment means to buy something for a true benefit which is often "long term"... not just consuming it without any further meaning or target.

This is the reason why Steam is so successful, it will provide consumption in the most convenient way possible.

Well, some more news. Regarding release i guess it will be January and upward.

Pricing and performance is a more important story even:

My estimations up to the second half of the year 2025:

5090: 3500 USD (The only new gen with way more performance vs. any other card, yet it is a power leecher.. could be the new record).

5080: 1800 USD (Basically taking over the spot of the 4090, with better efficiency)

Truly affordable is just anything lower than this:

5070 TI/ (9080 XT) = comparable to 3090 TI or 7900 XTX: Note: 9080 XT is speculation... so far nothing known.
5070/ 9070 XT = comparable to 7900 GRE. Apparently this card is verified... Maybe some OC model of the 9070 XT may reach the level of a 7900 XTX/5070 TI but this is at this point as well speculations.

Performance of the "somewhat affordable ones" (= most likely below 1000 coins) will not exceed a flagship already 2 generations behind or the strongest GPU of AMDs "last generation".

All what gamers could "hope for" is more efficiency. Not even a better price... it all comes down to get more efficiency in my mind, this is the only realistic improvement. No better price and no better performance, just better efficiency. Guess gamers was never so "lean" on demand ever ago, well they have to... no other choice.

This video is at least more gentle than me but... they did not take shortages and scalpers into account (as well reason we rarely ever got any 4090 for lower than 1800 and now they are as high as over 3000).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r2iBhxDhEM

I would say... another "disgusting" year for hardware. Along with the currently high 9800 X3D shortages which is driving up prices like mad for many months to come, perhaps even up to a half year. I guess the industry is facing a demise but no one dares to spell it out.

Especially AMDs GPU segment, it feels they was never so weak in their entire history.

Myself not planning to get a new card. I may "overthink" stuff at the end of 2025. Scalpers, miners, datacenters and whatelse may have a fun time... gamers rather not.

It may be a repeat situation of having to buy pre-builds to get parts. I'm not seeing any new stand-alone 9800X3Ds but I'm seeing pre-built systems with them. You'd be paying a 20% tax for labour though.

Yeah because scalpers enjoy to buy "single parts", not a entire machine they got no use for most of its "other parts".

The only problem is just: Even me as a non reseller (to say it in a nice way) is not having any use for the other parts because they are mostly not able to satisfy my needs or i simply got no use for, in term i am only "upgrading":

However: Not interested into upgrading my 7800 X3D, the difference "is just not worth the squeeze"... i may almost never "feel" the difference.

It would only be a matter in term i build another system but most likely rather at the time a even better CPU has been released. Unfortunately, it seems human creativity is now facing a depletion and it is already awesome if a new generation is able to gain 10%.

The only reason we still may need a upgrade (not a new build) is because of improved AI and RT... and only if we want to play the most graphic intense games available.

Guess my best upgrade for 2025 is to add some more HDDs for my archive-backup... more useful to me than those other parts. As well increasing my SSD space for installs.

It is nice to watch monsters roam the Earth! I'm curious though about what they'd expect for in a few years!

I liked it when PC graphics cards had to stay within 400W.

You mean total system power including CPU, memory and everything else?
Because 400W is already crazy high!? An RTX 2080 had a TDP of 215 watts.

No, I actually meant just the GPU. For example, my previous one draws up to 290W, an overclocked AMD Radeon R9 280X, but there was some two-core model that went slightly past 400W even it was not allowed back then without an overclock.

Not sure if there was ever such a law,..

What can be said for sure: A GPU with over 400 W TDP is beyond the economical reach of like 99% of all consumers, so in political terms there is no need to "interfere", this market is self regulating.

Even the less power hungry cards with like 300 W or so are probably out of reach for the majority of gamers, Do not forget, Trump may raise the taxes on GPUs up to 100% or so. While directly produced in the US the GPU price will increase 2 times, even without any taxes added. So the prices in the US at least may instantly "hike up" almost toward twice the old value very soon... it seems.

We may not directly notice it at the price because the price for a "comparable" card vs. a old card would be to high for the market. So the manufacturers are simply making some pretty clear cuts on the GPU hardware in order to mitigate the higher hardware costs.

However, even the rest of the world will become affected by the price hike because Nvidia and the other manufacturers will simply ask the same price for the rest of the world as well, no matter how much of taxes they have to pay on any other country. Well, there could be regional pricing, but in general, they will simply raise the base price to "US standards". It could actually become a issue for many countries with lower taxes because, their state is not getting the missing taxes, while the companies will simply "even out" any taxes which has not been asked for because of greed by using regional pricing. It could become a real issue at some point.

At worst it could end into a world wide "taxes war" and... the ones getting hurt the most are always those who already got limited money. It would be less of an issue if the state is handing out the taxes to everyone with the same percentage as they was using and demanding taxes, but this is not how it works; as most of us may have noticed.

As i said, the possible outcome is that we will get the most expensive hardware prices ever and even a entry level GPU could easily cost 300-400 USD, while any midrange is probably the same price comparable to a 7900 XTX, while not necessarily offering more performance.

We simply will have a clear several classes-consumer base soon and dependable on the hardware, a consumer with better hardware is "another class"; comparable to a Porsche or... well... not a Porsche driver. The main issue is still, that the "AAA"- developers will always try to target the strongest hardware possible, so... most of us will have to use frame-generation, lower details and so on in order to handle the newest software; as the software is simply increasingly being made for customers and developers who got stuff almost no gamer can afford... anymore.

It is probably best not to think to much about else it could grant some "revealings" which might disturb the "innocent world". Ultimately, i am not to enthusiastic related to the newest hardware now as it is simply "not in my reach" anymore, although, it does not stop me from playing my games in a great shape, thanks to 1080P and Plasma.

i am totally with you on this topic! last night i watched this inspirational footage of a guy running a 1080Ti for games as Stalker 2 and Space Marine 2 which i like to share with everyone else

The gist of the video is quite simple, he's running the 1080Ti on a ryzen 1700... which does not go well. This combination does not allow for a stable 60FPS output. He wants to reach 60FPS since that is considered bare minimum. His following suggests going for a CPU upgrade to see if this will help him in performance. And he sets out to do so!

I completely feel like i'm already in the guys shoes with a 10900k. I really feel the limitations of the CPU kicking in, even on 1080p!

Let us hope we can perform similarly when that time comes for all of us!

Here's the video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAW850bCZzc

The 1080 TI got no RT, so if RT is enabled a GPU may require twice or even more the performance, dependable on how capable the RT cores are.

It can as well not play any game anymore, as some games require RT, and there are no Tensor cores, so no AI technology possible in order to get even more frames (DLSS and comparable) or even better quality (DLAA).

So, pretty much, this card is past its "practical" lifetime and nowadays rather a fun "show off object", unless someone is playing classic-games from GOG only, of course.

It is indeed true that the CPU demand was going up a lot as well, so, anything weaker than a 5700 X3D is not the best idea.

I would rather use a 3090 TI which is capable of DLAA at 1080 P, instead of using any card weaker than a 5090 for the exact same thing but on 4k instead. Because, yes... a 5090 is the only card that would be able to handle 4k with the same performance compared to a 3090 TI (or equivalent) on 1080P (up to 1440P).

Yes, i do enjoy good or simply clean graphics but it is at the same time very important to have very solid performance, this combo is very demanding on any high resolution with the newest games (not older than 5 years).

So, my "1080P age" will simply become extended. Indeed, the PS5 Pro is able to handle 4k in a somewhat sufficient manner thanks to scaling technology, but even the PS5 Pro is not strong enough handling it at fully native resolution (= DLAA, with a few exceptions as always),

Regarding CPU, a 7800 X3D and up is surely still more than sufficient. However... those beasts are not free anymore, not even nearly... currently we got prices of 500 or even more USD for a 8 core CPU! If a CPU is weaker than that, on the newer games it will surely become noticed in many cases!