About Steam:

I've written this before and I'll write it again...
I've been fortunate enough to not have any difficulties or problems of any kind with Steam regarding the installation of games. I can easily spot discrepancies with the service but those issues don't affect me directly... and I'm probably the lowest common denominator when it comes to customer satisfaction. Compared to battle dot net, Steam is light-weight.
Does anyone remember when game publishers required gamers to register their games on-line? ...as an option? Well, it seems as if that's no longer an option now and what has replaced that process is the online requirement. Which raises the issue of DRM.

Who owns what? Is the customer paying to own the game or paying a service to rent the game? ...and if it is a service, what rights does both the publisher and customer have over the content? Does the publisher have the right to take away the service, thus the game, at any time? Can the publisher control when you can and cannot play the game the customer paid for?

I strongly feel that this is strange and unusual territory for the future of gaming.
No.
No, they haven't. It's heart breaking.

:(

Seriously.

Game forums would be incredibly boring without the incessant jibber-jabber over companies that are under no obligation to keep you happy.

BTW - gog.com has removed more legitimately owned games from libraries than Valve. Something to chew on as we all continue to buy games from whichever store we choose.

well - you can run steam in offline mode, and they say it is trivial to hack that protection as well.
As for "Turkey isnt real meat" - there is a saying (don't want to insult anyone) "A hen is not a bird, a woman is not a human", it supposedly originated from Caucassus or Asia in USSR and depicted how women rights were traditionally treated in that republics.
Easily - most people have way more games in steam accounts than they've played, let alone installed at the moment. So if steam for some reason shuts down - you're left with just a couple of games you have at the moment and you don't even have a legal proof of purchase (the bank statement shows you've purchased $x.yz service from steam, w/o detail of what it really was).
Or even more - you've all heard of sanctions against Russia and Crimea in particular - thus legal users from there may be left w/o the games they own just because of that. Surely, noone will cry there and this will give almost legal right to use pirated versions.

There is a huge difference between 'satisfaction' and 'happy'.

I don't seek 'happiness' from video game companies.

All I ask for is to be 'satisfied' with my purchase.

I do not recognize their right to keep people from getting their hands on two of the best games ever made. What they did is pure evil. That is a fact. Such games should not be locked away somewhere away from mankind. If you disagree, then do the whole world a favor and cancel your internet.

Grrr, I always wanted to play the original Fallout games. Fallout 3 was my first one in the series, which I loved from start to finish, and now I want to see more of the Fallout universe. I hope Bethesda has a change of heart and agrees to put them up on GOG again.

You realize that most of this applies to GOG too? If GOG for whatever reason shut down completely one day, you wouldn't have access to the games you didn't install, and the only proof you have are bank transaction records, which would state that you purchased something from GOG, same as with Steam.

I do hope that more and more stores adopt GOG's model and not be so over protective(especially when it doesn't seem to actually improve sales that much: look at Dragon Age: Inquisition), but you need to be a bit more fair if you're comparing these stores.

Customers/Players don't need to install all games from GOG.com catalog. We can download and store them to e.g. optical discs. We can install GOG.com games later without Internet access. Try it with Steam games... :>

Besides GOG.com is actually SELLING games while Steam is just renting them. That's why paying customers cant's store Steam games to install them later.

I've got few games on Steam. I've bought them as retail boxes. I was really surprised when Steam was installed together with a game... and started downloading whole game to install it again (sic!). Then Steam changed their "license, terms and agreement" and all my BOUGHT games were STOLEN and marked as RENTED: "If you don't agree with new terms your Steam account will be closed and you loose access to all games". F**k them! I'm not buying anything from Steam anymore... :-/

I agree that GOG lets customers store and move installers between computers with minimal hassle, and that's why I said that I would want more stores to adopt GOG's formula.

Besides, we don't need to install all games from the Steam catalog too.

I wouldn't say Steam is renting games though. That would only be true if they used always online DRM and then suddenly took away some games(which they have done I know, but generally for games that need to be online). Also, if Steam does go down it would be legal to use cracks for your Steam games, according to US laws atleast.

As far as that whole license, agreement and the like go? Those actually don't have much weight in a legal court, they can't override consumer laws. Of course, consumer laws are a bit ambiguous about the rights of consumers over services, so I would still advise people to be careful over buying games from Steam.

Take your meds.

Eat my shit.

There seems to be some confusion here. (People who are just plain wrong.)

GoG has indeed stopped SELLING certain titles.
Everyone who purchased these titles can still download them, DRM-Free, at any time they want.
They never take away your purchase.

Half of the games in my library cannot be purchased anymore, but I can download them forever. Even better, I can back these up and install them even without internet- no problem at all because there is no DRM. In the end, even if GoG went down and somehow my backups no longer existed- we could pirate the games rightfully so since we already paid good money for those games. (GoG games will probably be eternally backed up in the torrent cloud. Steam DRM crap is too, but would result in plenty more problems. Thus non-drm wins out in relation to "What happens to our games when the businesses are gone?") Either way, no one can take away any software from you since you can always get it for free anyway. A bit of a moot point.

The real point is who we pay our money to, and why. All of us here support developers by purchasing our games, so why allow Steam to screw us over unless we do not suffer from its bad customer service, horrible DRM crap, or consistent selling of scams (ex. Valve helped War Z, a huge scam game with one of the worst metacritic ratings ever become a 42 million dollar success.) If valve does you no wrong- give them your money. For the rest of us, there is GoG and supporting more moral business practices. I myself pay no money to Steam unless I literally have no other option (which unfortunately is often the case for early access indie titles. Ergh!) In the end, we decide where to spend our money and that's rightfully so. We are also fully entitled to wish others would spend their money differently by supporting something like GoG over something like Steam. It's a valid opinion. It's also a valid opinion to believe we should pour all our money into Steam (although believing you should pour your money into a monopoly is a pretty silly perspective, but a *shudders* and I hate to say this: a valid one).

Anyway, that's that. There is no argument- there is no pro-DRM argument because DRM does nothing but negative to the consumer. The Steam v. Gog argument isn't an argument- it's just different opinions which are all valid. So there's nothing to argue over. Any argument that DRM benefits us is weak and only theoretical (not to mention very optimistic, which is contrary to how reality usually turns out for consumers v. big business). You can argue if the positives actually exist for the developers, although many would argue that DRM harms them more than it protects them. Either way, the argument is mostly pointless. Why support something which is only negative to the consumer? Why support something that is only theoretically, only possibly positive for businesses while also being negative for us? There is no winning for you in such a stance. You have the pro-drm fools and the anti-drm people, and those who don't care (who thus lean on the side of the fool due to the typical negatives of apathy which afflict people for all topics).

Some of us will look down on those who are pro-drm or apathetic-drm. Some of us will respect those who are anti-drm. Few will lose respect for the anti-drm who support GoG as it's at least respectful to take a pro-consumer stance. So unless you want to argue in some vain attempt at gaining our respect (Argue with us "You should respect me!" or "Hey! Don't look down on me!", which is a futile and insecure thing to attempt) then there is little to actually discuss in relation to Steam v. GoG v. DRM.

Other than that- there is nothing else to argue. Arguing with a Steam Fanboy who doesn't understand the downsides for consumers of Steam, is too big of an idiot/troll to conversate with. You can be pro-Steam or as big a fanboy as you want, but it is irrational to ignore or minimalize the downsides and flaws that are so apparent. At the very least, it is extremely selfish and a horrible person to care so little for your fellow game who, unlike you, does indeed have issues with Steam's DRM. Steam is not perfect, and even if you love it- you need to accept that some people have a lot of problems with it because it is flawed just like everything usually is, and so it is entirely rational and O.K.A.Y. for them to dislike or even despise Valve. Just like it is entirely rational and acceptable for you to love Valve. Just don't be so naive or stupid as to think they can do no wrong, like so many fanboys so often do.

Hahahaha!
+1 to you sir.

Hi, it seems that Fallout 1 has disappeared from my library just recently, F2 ande Tactics are still there. I got all 3 when they were available for free.
Anyone else has that problem?

+1 to you sir (sorry to see the fanboys have been derepping you).