Hey guys,

I just finished all the Undead campaigns and had a lot of fun, but it took some experimentation before I found the sweet spot of 1 Lich Queen w/Hag Ring + 1 Shade + 4 Deaths that could effortlessly crush anything from cloud giants to tiamaths to capital defenders.

I am now playing the Elf Campaign and it is a lot harder, mostly because the units are crappy with very low HPs and no immunities. I have a group that is a Dryad, 2 archers, and 3 centaurs. They do OK but they all get hurt and die a lot.

Any suggestions on the best groups for the Elf missions and also for the other campaigns?

With the elves I'd recommend going with a warrior hero to supplement the elves' somewhat lackluster melee capabilities. For the front row the warrior hero and centaurs are pretty much your only realistic options, and although centaurs aren't that great to start with they level up pretty fast and high level centaur savages can dish out damage quite nicely. For the back row you'll want one healer, and the highest level elven healers are quite nice, providing both mass healing and also elemental wards (you can go with fire or air, depending on what opponents you're facing). Where the elves really shine are their archers (big surprise), and going along the path to marauders you'll get some archers that can really dish out the ranged damage quickly. However, depending on your opponent you may want to swap out one archer for a thaumatergist, as although their damage isn't stellar they have a nice ability to destroy the armor of enemy units, allowing your other units to deal much more damage to otherwise heavily armored units.

Thanks for the tips DarrkPhoenix.

On the last map I played (mission 3 I think, where you had to climb a mountain) I started out with 3 centaurs, 2 archers, and it worked OK (any ideas how the critical hit damage is calculated?) but I got tired of how slow the centaurs were and switched them out for 3 more archers, so 5 archers total. After beefing up my Dryad's armor she stopped dying, and this group started to rock, winning most battles without any hits from enemies.

On the thamateurgist, do you know if the shatter effect will remove armor gained from town defense?

I'm not surprised that those five archers could hold their own pretty well given their speed and damage potential, although I'd expect in some of the later scenarios the front row archers would take quite a beating from powerful melee units that can take 2-3 turns to take out (centaurs may not be fast, but they can make good meat shields, especially the centaur chargers as they have some armor).

As for whether the shatter effect reduces town defense, I want to say yes but it's been over a year since I played the game so I'm not all that certain. I do remember that the shatter effect is not guaranteed, sometimes missing units, and some units seem to be immune (most notably capital guardians).

Thanks for the comments DarrkPhoenix.

You're right, there were 1 or 2 battles later with high hp units, specifically in this one mission where you fight a party of Rune Masters (very high hp dwarf fighters) and a Level 14 Elder One storm giant with 900 hp and a 140 damage attack vs all. By that point, though, my Dryad was doing 140 damage to all too, and had 50% armor, so all I needed to do was cast a few extra armor spells on the party and we only lost 1 archer.

I haven't played the Clans or the Legions campaign yet, though. What parties do you recommend there? It's always tempting to choose the big double-wide Devils and Giants but are other units a better use of space?

For the Clans I typically prefer a Engineer for a main party leader, as the Clans' ranged offerings are otherwise pretty abysmal, and the extra movement really helps. The Clans have excellent melee units, so for the front row have either 2 or 3 Dwarf/Warrior/etc, and either the Dwarf King or Rune Master paths are great depending on whether you want offense or defense from your front row. Giants are fairly lackluster at the beginning other than as meat shields, but once you get the higher level unit upgrades I'd definitely recommend keeping around an Elder One for the combination of powerful area attack and massive HP. For back row I'd recommend keeping around an Archdruidess, as it's nice to have the healing, and although you can only heal one unit at a time it also comes with a big boost to damage, and if you end up using this on something like a Rune Master you'll be looking at a unit that can one-shot all but the most powerful enemies. Overall the party I think I used was Engineer, 2x Rune Master, Elder One, and Archdruidess.

For the Legions the single-space melee units are rather unimpressive at higher levels (Infernal Knights can still dish out some damage, but are nothing to write home about), so I'd recommend going with a Duke for a party leader. Marble Gargoyles and Onyx Gargoyles are nice for their high armor, but their damage output just isn't enough to justify the space they take up. The Devils and their upgrades are somewhat lackluster at earlier levels (aside from being meat shields, but Gargoyles are actually better for that), but really shine at higher levels. I'd recommend going the Beast/Tiamath upgrade path for the massive area damage, plus reducing the enemy's damage (with Tiamath). The Legions really shine with some of their back row units, with Modeus doing massive area damage, or alternatively an Incubus or Succubus mass petrify/polymorph (unfortunately you have to choose either damage or debilitation- can't have both). I think my final setup was a Duke, Infernal Knight, Tiamath, and 2x Modeus. An alternative setup that would also work pretty well is 2x Infernal Knight, Tiamath, then for back row an Arch-Devil and an Incubus or Succubus.

Thanks again for the tips. I did some experimentation--you're right that Gargoyles are essentially a waste of space. Consider that for the space of 1 Onyx Gargoyle--90 damage to 1 target--you could have 2 Marauders doing 70 x 4 = 280 damage spread however you want. Plus, armor is very easy to add via any number of things: banners, spells, potions, etc.

I have concluded, however, that the Mage Leader is always the best hero. This may seem controversial but think about it: The maximum damage for any unit is 300. However, the # of targets on any attack can never be changed. So if you used a Duke, he is initially stronger with better damage, but when he is doing 150 damage to 1 target, a same-level Archdevil is doing 100 damage to all targets. Grab some battle upgrades for your hero, some permanent-effect potions, throw in a few artifacts and banners, and finally you're doing 200 damage to all. That means with a potion / spell or two, at the end of the expansion campaigns, my Lich Queen and Dryad were both doing 300 x 6 targets, which is way more than 300 x 1. Moreover, they almost never died after the 3rd mission, either. For example, just with his items, my l13 archdevil has 75% damage reduction and 225 hp.

Knowing this, I put together a group of Archdevil (front row), 2x Tiamath, and Incubus (incubus is essenitally a shade with better accuracy and harder to resist attack). Yes you might be able to do more damage with 2x modeus and fighters instead of 2x tiamath, but the advantage is this: As long as you get the Incubus' armor up to about 30-40%, you are 100% guaranteed to win any capital battle, which is pretty sweet :) Combine this with the fact that the meatshield factor of having 2 frontrow tiamaths with ridiculous hp and 1 archdevil with ridiculous armor means that (as a Warrior Lord) you never have to stop and heal. It's an argument.

That does sound like a very nice party setup. I'll have to give that a try if I play through the game again.

I agree with what CFrederick said about Mage Heroes being the best. They are powerful, and usually they are the best for the campaigns, however all of them are out matched by the Undead Nosferatu (I think that's what he's called). He hits all targets like a mage, has good initiative, and has drain life which at higher levels makes him nearly impervious to damage. Not to mention on the overhead map, he can chase down people easily with increased movement.

For the Undead, I usually chose a Nosferatu, two Elder Vampires(drain life overflow is a dream), and three Phantom Warriors. (For the stuns which last longer than a turn.) This group can take out capitals fairly easily once the Nosferatu has gotten some resilience.

( Sorry for the Necro)

Actually, I wouldn't call the Gargoyles a COMPLETE waste, as they make pretty good garrison units. Are they a priority? No. But their armor stacked with a L5 city can make them pretty difficult to take out.

Gargoyles serve me pretty well, I use them specifically to take out people who paralyze(Ghosts, Shades) and poison(Imperial Assassins), and those pesky mages, since their health is usually low enough to take out in two hits.

For the Legions I take two groups, my main group with a Duke(with a soul crystal), two Overlords(Blister kills capitals quickly), and a Modeus, I use this group to take out large targets(Dragons, Spiders) and towns without mages. My second group has a Counselor, a Gargoyle and a Mage unit, this group usually takes out the pesky mage groups.

I also agree that mage heroes are the best, especially later in the campaign. By the time their initiative is high enough that they attack first, their damage usually nears the 150-200s mass. So when I play the campaign, I choose exclusively mage heroes. The Nosferatu is really a good option for the Undead as well, but has one major drawback - he does Death damage. As the only elemental damage dealer for the Unded is the Lich, this means that an Undead party with a leader other than a Lich can not take on units with Physical and Death immunity (such as Wraiths/Deaths, and Werewolves).

With the above in mind, here are the parties I found suited me most in campaigns:

Undead: Lich hero, 2 shades in the back row, and a Phantom Warrior front raw. Phantom warriors are tough and can dish out damage, plus they have a 50% chance of inflicting multy-turn paralyze on hit. Basically, with this setup it is enough to survive the first turn of the battle. After that, the enemies are frozen :)

Elves: a mass fire ward healer, elf lord and dryad in the back row. 3 Centaur chargers in the front row. I know it's strange that I do not use archers, but the elf lords levels fast and very quickly gets to the point where he deals 80-100 mass damage. Centaur chargers have low damage output, but with 20 armor and low XP needed to level, later they become great meat shields.

Dwarves: a rune master and archdruidess in the back row, two hermits and a Son of Ymir in the front row. The hermits have good enough HP to last in the front line, and they deal mass damage + lower initiative chance. A level 3 Son of Ymir buffed with armor and 100% damage increase from the archdruidess can take on a capital himself (which is what I actually do - I enter a capital, buff the Son of Ymir and escape all units but him, then let him put the guardian down to 50+ HP, and escape. Heal the whole army, reenter the capital, free mass XP to all :))

Demons: 2 incubi and the mage hero in the back row, 3 infernal knights in the front row