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I agree entirely with this. Obviously, those who literally can't run the game SHOULD be entitled to refunds. The problem I have are the morons who act like they have the right to exercise poor personal finance skills and buy a game just so they can refund it if they don't like it. That is top-tier entitlement right there. I know that I absolutely would not offer refunds to anyone unless they legitimately can't run the game. I love CDPR but the fact that they've offered these refunds just fuels the pathetic entitlement of gamers these days.
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JakobFel: I agree entirely with this. Obviously, those who literally can't run the game SHOULD be entitled to refunds. The problem I have are the morons who act like they have the right to exercise poor personal finance skills and buy a game just so they can refund it if they don't like it. That is top-tier entitlement right there. I know that I absolutely would not offer refunds to anyone unless they legitimately can't run the game. I love CDPR but the fact that they've offered these refunds just fuels the pathetic entitlement of gamers these days.
No. The exact opposite. If you buy a game (any game) and you dont like it. You 100% should be able to return it. This goes to all products. That is how our laws works for a reason. It keep business honest.
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JakobFel: I agree entirely with this. Obviously, those who literally can't run the game SHOULD be entitled to refunds. The problem I have are the morons who act like they have the right to exercise poor personal finance skills and buy a game just so they can refund it if they don't like it. That is top-tier entitlement right there. I know that I absolutely would not offer refunds to anyone unless they legitimately can't run the game. I love CDPR but the fact that they've offered these refunds just fuels the pathetic entitlement of gamers these days.
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jocaguz18: No. The exact opposite. If you buy a game (any game) and you dont like it. You 100% should be able to return it. This goes to all products. That is how our laws works for a reason. It keep business honest.
No, refunds are meant for a product that is broken or otherwise dysfunctional. This means that you are completely unable to use said product. For example, if the game doesn't run on your system at all. You shouldn't be allowed to get your money back just because you didn't like the game. That has nothing to do with keeping business honest. If anything, it severely harms smaller studios who do their best to work with what they have to deliver a great product. This is particularly true of CDPR who, while they definitely did make mistakes, did not deserve even a fraction of the whining they received.
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jocaguz18: No. The exact opposite. If you buy a game (any game) and you dont like it. You 100% should be able to return it. This goes to all products. That is how our laws works for a reason. It keep business honest.
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JakobFel: No, refunds are meant for a product that is broken or otherwise dysfunctional. This means that you are completely unable to use said product. For example, if the game doesn't run on your system at all. You shouldn't be allowed to get your money back just because you didn't like the game. That has nothing to do with keeping business honest. If anything, it severely harms smaller studios who do their best to work with what they have to deliver a great product. This is particularly true of CDPR who, while they definitely did make mistakes, did not deserve even a fraction of the whining they received.
The Consumer Rights Act says goods must be:
- Satisfactory quality.
- Fit for purpose.
- As described.

This is not a free to play with a internal market to pay his "work in progess", it is a Triple A, part of an industry of "legends" that plan to rise his products to $70 very soon, pushing more online services.

I know CDPR is not a internet provider, but considering the recent 500+ fixes, to see consumers with constant problems, since december, is quite complicated, especially after how it was promoted... compromissed with quality, next level, etc. Even the CEO helped with the mess, by post something that was not true, making the practice of refund absolutely fair.

Well, if you crossed 100 hours, please, keep it.
Post edited April 10, 2021 by user deleted
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JakobFel: No, refunds are meant for a product that is broken or otherwise dysfunctional. This means that you are completely unable to use said product. For example, if the game doesn't run on your system at all. You shouldn't be allowed to get your money back just because you didn't like the game. That has nothing to do with keeping business honest. If anything, it severely harms smaller studios who do their best to work with what they have to deliver a great product. This is particularly true of CDPR who, while they definitely did make mistakes, did not deserve even a fraction of the whining they received.
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FTSO: The Consumer Rights Act says goods must be:
- Satisfactory quality.
- Fit for purpose.
- As described.

This is not a free to play with a internal market to pay his "work in progess", it is a Triple A, part of an industry of "legends" that plan to rise his products to $70 very soon, pushing more online services.

I know CDPR is not a internet provider, but considering the recent 500+ fixes, to see consumers with constant problems, since december, is quite complicated, especially after how it was promoted... compromissed with quality, next level, etc. Even the CEO helped with the mess, by post something that was not true, making the practice of refund absolutely fair.

Well, if you crossed 100 hours, please, keep it.
Just because something is a law, that doesn't automatically make it right. There are plenty of laws that need to be changed or modified. The main issue with that one is that "Satisfactory quality" is 100% subjective. What you consider satisfactory quality may be completely different from what I consider satisfactory quality. The other two are a nonissue as the game fits both of those.
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FTSO: The Consumer Rights Act says goods must be:
- Satisfactory quality.
- Fit for purpose.
- As described.

This is not a free to play with a internal market to pay his "work in progess", it is a Triple A, part of an industry of "legends" that plan to rise his products to $70 very soon, pushing more online services.

I know CDPR is not a internet provider, but considering the recent 500+ fixes, to see consumers with constant problems, since december, is quite complicated, especially after how it was promoted... compromissed with quality, next level, etc. Even the CEO helped with the mess, by post something that was not true, making the practice of refund absolutely fair.

Well, if you crossed 100 hours, please, keep it.
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JakobFel: Just because something is a law, that doesn't automatically make it right. There are plenty of laws that need to be changed or modified. The main issue with that one is that "Satisfactory quality" is 100% subjective. What you consider satisfactory quality may be completely different from what I consider satisfactory quality. The other two are a nonissue as the game fits both of those.
stop dodge the law applyinace and look at the product without so much "passion", you are ignoring all the company mistakes, they are not innocent.

But, any player close to 100 hours should to keep the game, quite absurd to refund only the bones.
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JakobFel: Just because something is a law, that doesn't automatically make it right. There are plenty of laws that need to be changed or modified. The main issue with that one is that "Satisfactory quality" is 100% subjective. What you consider satisfactory quality may be completely different from what I consider satisfactory quality. The other two are a nonissue as the game fits both of those.
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FTSO: stop dodge the law applyinace and look at the product without so much "passion", you are ignoring all the company mistakes, they are not innocent.

But, any player close to 100 hours should to keep the game, quite absurd to refund only the bones.
I never said they were innocent but they certainly didn't make any mistakes that warranted the amount and toxicity of the backlash they received. People created an unrealistic image of CDPR after The Witcher 3, thinking they could do no wrong. Meanwhile, I came in skeptical of them at first, slowly growing to love them over time but my image of them was realistic. Plus, I guess part of it may be the fact that I also love Bethesda, so I guess I'm used to bugs but nonetheless, gamers really just need to get over themselves. Yes, we deserve to be treated fairly. No, we don't have a right to demand refunds if a game isn't the way we wanted it to be, to send death threats or infect devs with ransomware because a game didn't live up to our expectations.

CDPR is still the most consumer-friendly company in the industry right now, at least among the triple-A market. Larian would be a close second but they're still considerably indie. People take things for granted so easily. You may wake up one day and realize that the industry has run out of all of its CDPRs thanks to the way gamers treat them and it'd be 100% their own fault.
Post edited April 10, 2021 by JakobFel
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FTSO: stop dodge the law applyinace and look at the product without so much "passion", you are ignoring all the company mistakes, they are not innocent.

But, any player close to 100 hours should to keep the game, quite absurd to refund only the bones.
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JakobFel: I never said they were innocent but they certainly didn't make any mistakes that warranted the amount and toxicity of the backlash they received. People created an unrealistic image of CDPR after The Witcher 3, thinking they could do no wrong. Meanwhile, I came in skeptical of them at first, slowly growing to love them over time but my image of them was realistic. Plus, I guess part of it may be the fact that I also love Bethesda, so I guess I'm used to bugs but nonetheless, gamers really just need to get over themselves. Yes, we deserve to be treated fairly. No, we don't have a right to demand refunds if a game isn't the way we wanted it to be, to send death threats or infect devs with ransomware because a game didn't live up to our expectations.

CDPR is still the most consumer-friendly company in the industry right now, at least among the triple-A market. Larian would be a close second but they're still considerably indie. People take things for granted so easily. You may wake up one day and realize that the industry has run out of all of its CDPRs thanks to the way gamers treat them and it'd be 100% their own fault.
Sit and watching the industry changing, indeed, have fun.
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JakobFel: I never said they were innocent but they certainly didn't make any mistakes that warranted the amount and toxicity of the backlash they received. People created an unrealistic image of CDPR after The Witcher 3, thinking they could do no wrong. Meanwhile, I came in skeptical of them at first, slowly growing to love them over time but my image of them was realistic. Plus, I guess part of it may be the fact that I also love Bethesda, so I guess I'm used to bugs but nonetheless, gamers really just need to get over themselves. Yes, we deserve to be treated fairly. No, we don't have a right to demand refunds if a game isn't the way we wanted it to be, to send death threats or infect devs with ransomware because a game didn't live up to our expectations.

CDPR is still the most consumer-friendly company in the industry right now, at least among the triple-A market. Larian would be a close second but they're still considerably indie. People take things for granted so easily. You may wake up one day and realize that the industry has run out of all of its CDPRs thanks to the way gamers treat them and it'd be 100% their own fault.
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FTSO: Sit and watching the industry changing, indeed, have fun.
You're just angry act the fact that CDPR hands over you an unfinished game but not realizing they can send updates by fixing the game? hilarious for a person who is still living in the days where physical copies are still a thing.
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FTSO: Sit and watching the industry changing, indeed, have fun.
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VisualBlack: You're just angry act the fact that CDPR hands over you an unfinished game but not realizing they can send updates by fixing the game? hilarious for a person who is still living in the days where physical copies are still a thing.
This game is not going to be 100% fixed, no game ends up fixed 100% when was developed with flaws, a patch is a duct tape, is not going to fixe core issues. That´s why we consume games of Bethesda and tons of mods, around Todd´s theme park, mods not only fixe things, but improve ideas.

You guys think corporations as friends of yours, this is why the game industry does so much bullshit nowadays, they fuck things up, say sorry, later fuck things up again, the point of balance is the need of have the favourite franchise alive, because new IPs on same circumstance are butchered quite fast, at least on the Triple A enviroment.

I dont use physical copies, new titles costs around R$200, neither think about purchase a collectors editions here in Brazil. Imagine purchase a box with a statue, concept art, blablabla, and the game disk is just a cardboard with a key print on it, requiring the download of everything else, all of this at the cost of R$3000 or R$4000. Most people prefer to buy a PC with such value in hands, a very entrance one. Kind of out of topic, but just to put together costs from basic physical and elite ones.

Entertainment is a costly product, to purchase something promoted as 16 times the details and the most advanced open world to date... and receive a bug fest, not to mention, features no longer there, removed in the very final months together with that RPG in the Twitter Bios... well.

by the way, any comment refferent a costs, internet speed and geopolitical conditions are not related with CDPR or any Triple A company, just for the sake of details... we love them!

Anyway, enjoy.
Post edited April 11, 2021 by user deleted
Problem is, without corporations there would be no computers, no consoles, and no games or other kinds of software. Nada--zippo. At any price.

Some companies put out good products some put out bad ones, and fortunately the ones that put out bad ones generally don't last very long. Just be glad you have the products to choose from in the first place.

CP2077 is so controversial precisely because it's (imo) a crummy game put out by software developers with a reputation for putting out the wonderful Witcher games over many years. No one expected them to deliver a bug fest like CP2077 after Witcher 3. Going further than that, Night City is such a nasty sleaze fest that I personally didn't want to be there--even if the bugs were fixed. The daily news is enough like a hellhole such that when I game I don't want to escape to a sleaze pit full of nasty, dirty, rotten people living nasty, dirty lives inside nasty & dirty Night City. But, what do I know? Maybe most gamers today like sleaze...I don't know. And I particularly loathe rap music in all its forms. Ugh. It's no wonder Witcher didn't also feature rap music...;) (Imagine Geralt as a sleazy gang-banger pushing dope, with a boom-box blaring rap strapped to Roach's saddle...;) )

Anyway...people bought into the hype because of the Witcher games and CDPR has burned up a lot of Good Will it had created in the global gaming market when it decided to peddle something like CP2077. Had CDPR not been the developer for CP2077 it would have come and gone with barely a whimper, and few would even remember it.

I have no complaints about the game and I don't want a refund because after the demo and the trailers I saw I found I could not summon any desire to buy the game. So I didn't buy it. With every day that passes I know it was a good decision and I have no hope that this game will ever be changed enough to make me want to play it enough to buy it.

I don't see a future for CDPR if they do nothing for the next few years except try to fix this game. Working on Witcher 4 in earnest will help drive the memory of this abomination from the public mind--but even then--CDPR will have to work twice as hard to convince people to buy their next game--whether it's a Witcher game or not--all because of CP2077. It's rare when you see corporations make this kind of mistake because most who do don't recover. CDPR used to be my all-time favorite developer.
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Whereaminow25: First of all, If you want a Refund, you were a weak gamer ...
I love this one.
Fishing in the recesses of our resiliency as gamers. Historically a strong lot.
Filled with will and determination.
Forged in the depth of Dark Souls and frustration of thousand failed attempts to download the latest Microsoft Flight Simulator.

And that "you were".
Underling that the simpe thought of a refund, for a broken game, put you at the bottom of the food chain.

Gosh.
This is pure Dante. Shakespeare at his prime.
Post edited April 13, 2021 by OldOldGamer
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waltc: Problem is, without corporations there would be no computers, no consoles, and no games or other kinds of software. Nada--zippo. At any price.

Some companies put out good products some put out bad ones, and fortunately the ones that put out bad ones generally don't last very long. Just be glad you have the products to choose from in the first place.

CP2077 is so controversial precisely because it's (imo) a crummy game put out by software developers with a reputation for putting out the wonderful Witcher games over many years. No one expected them to deliver a bug fest like CP2077 after Witcher 3. Going further than that, Night City is such a nasty sleaze fest that I personally didn't want to be there--even if the bugs were fixed. The daily news is enough like a hellhole such that when I game I don't want to escape to a sleaze pit full of nasty, dirty, rotten people living nasty, dirty lives inside nasty & dirty Night City. But, what do I know? Maybe most gamers today like sleaze...I don't know. And I particularly loathe rap music in all its forms. Ugh. It's no wonder Witcher didn't also feature rap music...;) (Imagine Geralt as a sleazy gang-banger pushing dope, with a boom-box blaring rap strapped to Roach's saddle...;) )

Anyway...people bought into the hype because of the Witcher games and CDPR has burned up a lot of Good Will it had created in the global gaming market when it decided to peddle something like CP2077. Had CDPR not been the developer for CP2077 it would have come and gone with barely a whimper, and few would even remember it.

I have no complaints about the game and I don't want a refund because after the demo and the trailers I saw I found I could not summon any desire to buy the game. So I didn't buy it. With every day that passes I know it was a good decision and I have no hope that this game will ever be changed enough to make me want to play it enough to buy it.

I don't see a future for CDPR if they do nothing for the next few years except try to fix this game. Working on Witcher 4 in earnest will help drive the memory of this abomination from the public mind--but even then--CDPR will have to work twice as hard to convince people to buy their next game--whether it's a Witcher game or not--all because of CP2077. It's rare when you see corporations make this kind of mistake because most who do don't recover. CDPR used to be my all-time favorite developer.
Agree - besides technical issues, this game is just very average compared to the Witcher series.

This review which I only read very recently (despite being Dec 2020 dated) sums it up for me so well:

Yes, Cyberpunk 2077 Is Buggy. But Mostly, It Has No Heart

https://www.wired.com/story/cyberpunk-2077-review-story-problems/

I'm on my 4th playthrough of the Witcher 3 and it's just great. Still to this day, nearly 6 years later.
Post edited April 13, 2021 by midrand
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waltc: Night City is such a nasty sleaze fest that I personally didn't want to be there--even if the bugs were fixed. The daily news is enough like a hellhole such that when I game I don't want to escape to a sleaze pit full of nasty, dirty, rotten people living nasty, dirty lives inside nasty & dirty Night City. But, what do I know? Maybe most gamers today like sleaze...I don't know. And I particularly loathe rap music in all its forms. Ugh. It's no wonder Witcher didn't also feature rap music...;) (Imagine Geralt as a sleazy gang-banger pushing dope, with a boom-box blaring rap strapped to Roach's saddle...;) )
I totally understand all the fuzz about the game being buggy and so many promises broken etc., not going to delve any deeper into this mess. I personally liked CP77, but I'm still really sad that the game couldn't live up to its huge potential. I have accepted the fact that I will never be able to play the game that I initially expected.

BUT, you make it sound like the Cyberpunk setting is one of the many problems that the game has, just as if any game that has this particular sleazy setting and dark atmosphere isn't even worth playing because it is NOT a wonderful fantasy game with bright beautiful nature, clear blue skies and butterflies.

I have to disagree on that. Not everyone wants to play Lord of the Rings over and over again. I've done that, had enough. It was exactly the setting that made Cyberpunk interesting to me, and Witcher mostly uninteresting to me. This has nothing to do with the game being good or bad, just what my preferences are. Nothing more.

I have had discussions with other people in the past, many of those CDPR fans literally yelling that no one ever needs a Cyberpunk game, and why didn't they just bring us Witcher 4 etc. It is really exhausting. It is ok to not like Cyberpunk, but that doesn't mean that there can't be a good Cyberpunk game.

About the rap music, 100% agreement. They should have left out that crap ;)
I hoped for a lot more 80s Retro Wave and Synth music instead. What a pity.
Post edited April 14, 2021 by SuccessDenied
Was expecting an rpg, found none.