I insisted? Emanates disapproval? You are determined, aren't you? I'll not play this game.

Thanks for all the replies. More are certainly welcome.

Even before I wrote my post, my thinking was along the same lines as another poster above. If this was a PnP game, running back down the stairs to make a choke point/kill zone is something I may have encouraged our group to do. What makes it potentially "cheesy" in this situation is that the game's AI isn't what a DM's would be. A good DM would roleplay the enemies according to their intelligence and/or emotional state. Maybe they really are dumb enough to come charging down the stairs. More likely, however, is that one of them would alert guards on a lower level (using some kind of dumbwaiter or bell system) and then turn my tactical advantage into a weakness by surrounding me.

For what it's worth (and to avoid further arguing about terminology), I agree with those who think what I did was cheesy. I even considered that at the time. But I was a bit lazy about it and didn't want to have to scour my spells for just the right combo, leave to go to an inn, rest/rememorize, etc. After all, as others pointed out, that's all using meta-game knowledge as well.

Fair towards whom? Do you think the cpu got frustrated that you didn't play by the book? Did other players that you never ever meet and never will interact with, cried tears of burning fury for your way of playing?

My stance to that is simple: Did I feel good about the outcome? Did I enjoyed myself? If I replied a yes to any of these I move on and keep on playing. If I got a no, then I try to rethink my strategy and if I can't come to a good one, I'm looking how other's played that part of the game.

I deeply dislike discussions of "fairness" between a player and their computer. It's all about enjoyment. If you like a challenge, don't use "cheese". If you have a blast by finding the AI's limits and weaknesses then, by all means, have a go with it. That's why I love SCS so much. It's author doesn't try to impose how will you play your game. He makes the experience the best he can, but the player is free to choose in the end the amount of challenge they prefer. Of course there are several other misguided modders that think they are on a crusade against "cheese". Meh...

To answer your question though, I don't use any tactic that I think it would be absurd in a p&p game. I don't move to another room to stop spell casting or lure enemies one by one while the rest are but a few meters away. I try to complete stretches of areas in one go and sleep about once a day. I don't use items that are poorly thought out (f.e. cloak of mirroring). That's how I enjoy playing the game.

If someone else enjoys doing what I avoid, my reaction would be to exchange the difference in opinion. Not debate why they are wrong and "unfair".

Edit: Bloody tags....

Or, god help you, if it were a high enough level campaign, the wizard would pop open a dimension door and send himself and a few guards to flank you. If not that, then I'm sure someone would think to cast spider climb on a few fighters so that they could cling to the outside of the building and reenter through a window, again to flank. If you were trying to run from the building, however, I think a few well placed fireballs and other AoE spells fired from a window at the exit would keep you pinned down long enough for the heavy hitters to follow you and start bringing the pain. And then there's my personal favorite, do nothing while you run away and have the city guard arrest you for breaking, entering, and killing people. Going to have to keep a few of these in mind for my upcoming campaign.

I consider it fair game, the computer cheats against you too, especially in Baldur's Gate 2 with enemy mages and their cheesy sequencers which you need to cast breach to get through, ugh. But then consider how many instances of stupidity are shown in the following.

After finishing BG1, I restarted the game with the same character. I go into the inn, kill everyone on the first floor, clear out the second level too then lock pick a container containing a gem and steal it. The Candlekeep guards show up and simply accuse me of theft instead of premeditated mayhem. Anyways, due to my repentant nature, I give all the gold in my possession to the guard and continue on my killing spree. Kill all the tutors outside, kill the cow for 1 XP (woo hoo!!!) got to the gates and hoped the guards would open them so I could continue my rampage throughout the Sword Coast but there was no option, so they died too. During that time, all the NPCs would just stand there, even if they were in eye shot of watching their mates getting whacked into blood sausage. Things went sour when I got to Gorion. He zaps you with a lightning bolt that can't be saved against, can't be resisted or avoided in any way. It kill me, bounces off the wall, kills Imoen then cuts to the death screen. Now if I played the game normally, just think of how different the game could have ended up if my dear old foster daddy zapped Serevok with his uber lightning bolt instead of some mook ogre.

In BG2, the random encounters with 3-4 thugs/muggers in Athkatla armed with ordinary longswords and leather armour are just incredibly stupid. You have a party of 6 fully decked out against a party of 4 with crap gear but they attack you anyways. My age old gripe about "evil" characters in these kinds of games is that they're so one dimensional and idiotic to a fault. Evil laugh, check, over confident, check, rude, check, willing to back stab for short term gain even when long term consequences are obvious, check, demand instant gratification, check. "evil" and "stupid" are not interchangeable terms but game devs seem to think so.

The denizens of the Sword Coast and Amn are morons anyway, with or without cheese.

Well, it isn't as cheesy as some other interesting trick, which works only in BG1. It is called "Interrupt any spell by pressing spacebar". If you will learn proper timing (moment when spell exits its casting animation and starts turning into missile), you will be able to interrupt just about any enemy spellcaster. Now, if to consider that spellcasters are main problem in D&D games (especially in low level campaigns), it will be extremely hard to not use this trick when you will learn it :)
I remember there was some trick to kill Gorion without him striking back (I think it involved stealth and backstabbing). However, game becomes completely unwinnable after that, because without Gorion (and even with him alive but being hostile), there is noone to lead you out of the city. There is also a special trick for those who like to kill people in Candlekeep for this or other reason, and it involves killing everyone couple screens away from Gorion - this way he won't turn hostile.

Really? I was sure I tried sneaking using a potion of invisibility but I still got fried as if I was fully visible. Just tried backstabbing him and letting off a magic missle but still got fried. Funnily enough, his lightning bolt although one shot pops me, bounces back and hits him for just under 40 damage, my backstab did about 40 damage and my magic missile 8 damage and he still didn't go down. I was playing the vanilla gog version, no mods.

I know it's pointless to go on a killing spree like that but when you have a maxed f/t/m with 60+ arrows of detonation, why not go on a pointless ramage? ;)

Gorion is never going to go down from a mere backstab coming from a level 1 character; he has 290 hit points, and wears a Knave's Robe (+1 AC vs slashing).

He was a f/t/m will maxed out XP and around 75% in stealth using a short sword of back stabbing +3. My plan was to get Gorion fry himself from his own lightning bolt, the back stab and magic missles were only intended to do as much damage as possible in the first round before I got fried.

But if he has 290 then I guess that's not going to work no matter how good my back stab is

I wrote "I think", I remember I read about it on some other forum (can't recall which now) and it involved some very simple approach (probably involved some kind of dialogue bug). Nevertheless result is same, when Gorion dies in such way, game becomes unwinnable.

I think I've read it in some kind of guide, which involved taking maximum out of Candlekeep, which inluded killing everyone killable (1 NPC patrolling around castle isn't killable by any normal means) and some very obscure things, e.g., if you talk with Firebead in Candlekeep Inn enough times, he will give you some gold (I think it was around 300 or so, which is quite good for beginning of game).

So, cheats from the beginning then? What's the point?

No cheats, I already finished the game legit with that character. I just imported him into a new game to do stupid things for the lulz, nothing more.


I'll have to try and find that guide as I'm interested to see how it's done. Didn't know there was an unkillable NPC patrolling around the castle, I was pretty sure I got them all but I guess I missed him.

There isn't. At least not in vanilla BG1. If you save the game right after character creation, and take a look at AR2600 in Infinity Explorer, you will see that there are no actors with invulnerability items worn -- it's the only way to make them non-killable.